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Need an OOB moderator

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Need an OOB moderator

Post  Father General on Tue Jun 17, 2014 5:47 am

I still need an OOB volunteer to keep and manage the master OOB and process battle results and changes.

If someone is unwilling or unable to take up the mantle, then I could do it myself provided I am given a tutorial. The tutorial can be written, step-by-step and provided, or I can allot some time on Saturday (PM GMT) to chat with anyone who can teach me. I have some OOB editing experience, but I have never used the tool without supervision. Nobody who knows me wants that to happen.

If you're willing or able, let me know:



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Re: Need an OOB moderator

Post  mitra on Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:00 pm

What is the tool you're referring, Neal? Stefan generator?


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Re: Need an OOB moderator

Post  Father General on Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:38 pm

I don't know what each tool does. Until I know or someone shows me, I'll have to do things by hand.

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Re: Need an OOB moderator

Post  Martin on Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:14 am

I think there are potentially 2 tools you could use, Neal:

* Hays developed one, which was then used in Digby's Peninsular campaign

* Leffe's forthcoming Scenario Generator update will include a similar function

OTOH I may be wrong. Hopefully one of these gents could comment.....

Martin (J)


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Re: Need an OOB moderator

Post  Leffe7 on Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:36 pm

Hays tool looks to be very detailed and sophisticated, I have never used it in real, maybe Digby could tell how well it is suited for the campaign (for example I don't know how the battle results are applied).

My tool is more simplified. If you are willing to do without some features this tool can create the scenarios for your campaign and maintain the master OOB. For some specific actions you will need to edit some minor changes manually. My tool uses Excel, and you will edit the OOB directly in Excel inside my tool - but you need to understand the OOB structure a bit.

There was also an OOB Editor done by Garnier, for which you don't need Excel and you can drag and drop units and edit values. However it doesn't have any campaign support and you would need to interact with one of the other tools.


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Re: Need an OOB moderator

Post  Mr. Digby on Wed Jun 18, 2014 1:48 pm

Apologies to Niall if I have reported anything wrongly - its been a year since I've used his software!

Hays tool is very good but a little sensitive to errors. When I used it in my PenCamp I was always breaking the OOBs and having to ask Hays for advice. he was very obliging though in every case and a big help, so if you use this piece of software you can be sure of good support from its developer.

The software takes the basic OOB and adds several columns to the right hand end in which it stores the units ratings and numerical strength a second time. After a battle you apply the gamedump data to the OOB and the software adjusts unit strength and ALL its ratings depending on how the unit scored, whether it was on a winning or losing side or a draw and what state it ended the battle in (okay, routed, captured). These modifiyers are all user adjustable so if there was a crushing victory the umpire can 'hurt' the losing side more, etc. The morale ratings of units then shift up and down to be applied in subsequent battles, something like Garniers GCM software does.

There is also a setting to allow more, or fewer, or no, replacements after a battle. Adding back new/green troops to a unit can adversely affect it's morale rating. In a campaign an umpire can turn this off (example Lee during the Gettysburg camapign) or on if an army is operating in a region or period of the war when replacements are available. You can even go into the OOB and adjust things manually. For example in my PenCamp I always increased the numbers of Spanish infantry who ran away for a period of 2 weeks. Then 2 map turns after a battle (each map turn was 2 weeks), a lot of them would return, this being a feature of these amateur troops in theearly part of the war.

So if you're prepared to rol up your sleeves and messa bout in the OOB files you can add plenty of effects in addition to what Hay's software provides.

After all the adjustments have been made the software then backs the OOB up and stores it as a new OOB called 'MasterOOBAfterBattle1' or something like that with the 'MasterOOB' preserved elsewhere in the folder.

The one weakness I found with Hays software was that every OOB, master or scenario, had to have a full army command structure in use - Army - Corps - Division - etc in order for his OOB calculation system to function and in many campaign battles no Army commander or even sometimes corps commander is present and is therefore unwanted in the scenario file. Removing these lines then adding them back later proved to be a bit awkward for me and I never quite got my head around them.

Hays software doesn't create scenarios at all, its purely a campaign army maintenance device. In my PenCamp I created scenarios manually using Stefan's tutorial which was posted on this forum over a year ago. My understanding now is that Stefan's scenario generator can create scenarios much more quickly and now allows individual unit placement but sadly it and Hay's software are incompaitble. My understanding is you can't create a scenario using Stefan's scenario generator then put the post-battle gamedump into the OOB to run it through Hay's number cruncher - theres a conflict in the excel file column use between the two. It would be brilliant if this incompatibility could be resolved.

My recommendation - Hays software is 85% awesome but 15% frustrating!

The other Martin - Charles Reille, le dernier Maréchal de France.

"Any hussar who has not got himself killed by the age of 30 is a jackass." - Antoine Charles Louis Lasalle, commander of Napoleon's light cavalry, killed in battle at Wagram 6 July 1809, aged 34.

"I had forgotten there was an objective." - Generallieutenant Mikhail Borozdin I
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Re: Need an OOB moderator

Post  Father General on Wed Jun 18, 2014 2:06 pm

Digby, that's wonderful input.

I am talking to Stefan today to see when we can review his tool. He just sent it to me this morning and I will play with it this afternoon, my time, to see if I have questions.

We're making progress. No matter what system I use, it will all be better than editing by hand after each battle.

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Re: Need an OOB moderator

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