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The Battle of Shevardino - September 5th 1812

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The Battle of Shevardino - September 5th 1812

Post  MJP on Tue Dec 30, 2014 1:21 am

I have been playing around with the scenario designer and have finished my first scenario.   I have an affinity for the recreation of historical actions where possible, so this is an attempt to recreate as best as possible given map and OOB limitations the action of the evening of September 5th 1812, the Battle of Shevardino.   I hope that as a new member of the KS HITS community i'm not overstepping here!   If I am, sincere apologies in advance.

Background
The Shevardino redoubt was an outpost situated on the left flank of Kutuzovs Imperial Russian army about a mile in front of the main line of where the Russians were fully deploying.   The Grand Armee was still advancing up the main post road to Moscow at this point and Napoleon recognized that he needed to clear the Russians from this position on the south of the Moscowa River so that he could deploy his army in preparation for the Battle of Borodino two days later.   As such it was ordered that elements of Davout's 1st Corps would attack supported by the cavalry of the 1st and 2nd Cavalry corps.   Poniatowski's Corps was also advancing on a flank march around further to the south.  

Defending the redoubt were elements of Borozdin's VIII Corps ostensibly under the overall command of Gorchakov.  The French stormed the redoubt and captured it only to be thrown back themselves by a counterattack by Grenadiers who had come up from reserve.   The Russians managed to hold the position until the evening, but with Poniatowski's troops working their way around their left flank the wise decision was made to abandon the position, which was now untenable, under the cover of darkness and rejoin the main Russian lines.   Losses had been heavy on each side with some 10,000 Casualites, 4000 French and 6000 Russian, in just a few hours time.

The Battle of Shevardino was a small taste of the horrors to come at Borodino two days later with attacks and counterattacks swirling around similar defensive works at both the Fleches and the Great Redoubt.


KS Hits NAP MOD Recreation



I have attempted to recreate the Battle as well as i could given the restrictions of available maps and OOBS.   Overall however, the OOBS for Russia are great and thanks so much to the creator, clearly a lot of work went into this.   While it is not an exact recreation, i feel the scenario will capture the flavor of the engagement quite well with the irresistible force coming up against the immovable object!   The battle starts at 5pm and the french have 2 hours to wrest control of the redoubt from the Russians before darkness sets in.    Really, there should be another hour but I have purposely made the time short to force the action as it was historically and to try to discourage the french from using the entire map and trying to turn the position.   Poniatowski's corps was doing this in any case and regardless of the result of this scenario, the Russians will be forced to quit the position overnight in any case.   I have also made the area on the east of the river (as shown, really the right edge of this map is north) unplayable such that the French don't try to use it to get around the right flank of the Russians.  Historically there were other forces not in the scenario that would have prevented such a move.   Finally, the river is impassable except at the marked bridge.   I understand the AI may attempt to use this ground, but in a few playings under AI control, it hasn't tried this yet as far as I'm aware. So commanders will have to do their best to prevent it from happening and recall anyone who wanders off.

Objectives

While the obvious objective is whichever side holds the redoubt at the end of the game wins, each side will also be advised of other objectives independently which will help to determine the level of victory.   These will be sent to the C-in-C only and he should not advise any other commander on his team of what these are, but should command to achieve them.      

Number of Players and Setup
This scenario will require a minimum of 10 players, but i think would be better with more, with really no upper limit.   How i'd like to proceed interested players should post to this thread stating which side they'd like to be.   I will also need volunteers for C-in-C.   Once i have the C-in-C volunteers, i will send them their OOB and more information about their specific deployment and once we divide up the teams they can think over a plan and assign commands to their teammates.  In a scenario this size, it will be best if the C-in-C is purely a C-in-C i think.   As such, each side has a "reserve artillery division" which will be directly controlled by the C-in-C.   There are 8 other total divisional commands available and having several sub-commanders will facilitate superior play i feel as some of these divisions are quite large.  

So anyone interested in participating, please respond and we can take it from there.  I realize you guys have the Penninsula Campaign going and i certainly don't want to infringe on the next battle of that one, so this battle can be scheduled on a day where there is no scheduled campaign battle.  

Thanks for looking and any questions, just let me know.

Matt
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Re: The Battle of Shevardino - September 5th 1812

Post  WJPalmer on Tue Dec 30, 2014 1:58 am

Nice! I'm game. Either side and any role (preference is a traditional role as an infantry division C.O. -- with bde. sub-commander(s) -- or in a brigade leadership position.

I nominate Kevin as a C-in-C, as he gets so few opportunities these days, being the architect of most of our scenarios. And we can't have General Georgia getting rusty! ;-)

I'd also suggest putting up a Doodle, or asking Digby to set one up.
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Re: The Battle of Shevardino - September 5th 1812

Post  MJP on Tue Dec 30, 2014 2:23 am

Thanks Palmer, your preference/flexibility has been noted.  

One thing i should mention is that unlike the games I've experienced thus far (which have been admittedly few!), this scenario has Full divisions of cavalry.   So commands exist for Cavalry "Divisions" as well as infantry divisions as opposed to the infantry divisions with attached cavalry as I've experience thus far.
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Re: The Battle of Shevardino - September 5th 1812

Post  Iberalc on Tue Dec 30, 2014 10:15 am

I don't like that map. Rolling Eyes

It looks great Matt, I will be very happy to play if possible. I don't mind the side French or Russian, and I think I will enjoy cavalry brigade command with a more experienced player taking the cavalry division. If there are not enough divisional commanders I can take one. pirat
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Re: The Battle of Shevardino - September 5th 1812

Post  Mr. Digby on Tue Dec 30, 2014 11:10 am

Welcome to the heady world of scenario design! It looks great as well as a recipe for some more carnage.

Did you speak with Kevin? He has a simple but effective way of showing a redoubt on the map, using the abbatis/breastworks sprites. Some of those could represent the earthworks.

May I suggest you put up a doodle poll (https://doodle.com) giving available dates and times. This way players can tell if if they are available and then you choose the date/time combo that most players can attend. You will also always get last minute arrivers who don't use it, but that can be a bonus. The purpose of doodle polls also lets you select C-in-Cs as the veteran players tend to use it all the time now.

I'll volunteer to play French for a change. A division will do me, cav or inf.

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The other Martin - Charles Reille, le dernier Maréchal de France.

"Any hussar who has not got himself killed by the age of 30 is a jackass." - Antoine Charles Louis Lasalle, commander of Napoleon's light cavalry, killed in battle at Wagram 6 July 1809, aged 34.

"I had forgotten there was an objective." - Generallieutenant Mikhail Borozdin I
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Re: The Battle of Shevardino - September 5th 1812

Post  kg little mac on Tue Dec 30, 2014 12:56 pm

I'm very tired of attacking.

Post on the GCM forum as well, Matt. And perhaps even the Norbsoft forum.

A 20 player hits battle would be awesome -- as long as I'm defending.
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Re: The Battle of Shevardino - September 5th 1812

Post  Uncle Billy on Tue Dec 30, 2014 2:48 pm

Za Rodinu!

Russian command for me, please.  If I get to control the Russian arty reserve, I'll take CinC.  Nothing more fun than siting those bad boys.  Except... that also means I'll get to send Soldier into glory again.  Nothing but perks.

I can build a redoubt with abatis on the map. We will just have to distribute the new map files to everyone before the game.

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Re: The Battle of Shevardino - September 5th 1812

Post  kg little mac on Tue Dec 30, 2014 2:52 pm

I dwell in glory.
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Re: The Battle of Shevardino - September 5th 1812

Post  Mr. Digby on Tue Dec 30, 2014 3:14 pm

and death.

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The other Martin - Charles Reille, le dernier Maréchal de France.

"Any hussar who has not got himself killed by the age of 30 is a jackass." - Antoine Charles Louis Lasalle, commander of Napoleon's light cavalry, killed in battle at Wagram 6 July 1809, aged 34.

"I had forgotten there was an objective." - Generallieutenant Mikhail Borozdin I
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Re: The Battle of Shevardino - September 5th 1812

Post  MJP on Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:22 pm

Russian command for me, please. If I get to control the Russian arty reserve, I'll take CinC. Nothing more fun than siting those bad boys. Except... that also means I'll get to send Soldier into glory again. Nothing but perks.

Oh, i think you'll prefer French C-in-C to be honest with you as the Russian reserve artillery is already sited in the redoubt that you're going to kindly build for me!!! Very Happy Truth be told, i'd rather have an experienced player take C-in-C of the French, who by the way has 3 full batteries of guard artillery to site as he sees fit and these ones most definitely do need siting. My reason for this is that given that the Russians were operating with a commander in name only, i think it would be interesting to have a newer player take the Russian C-in-C role. We can discuss later though and if you really want Russian, not a problem.

I can build a redoubt with abatis on the map. We will just have to distribute the new map files to everyone before the game.

How?! How do we best go about getting this abatis/redoubt built where i want it? Please advise sir and very much appreciated!
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Re: The Battle of Shevardino - September 5th 1812

Post  Uncle Billy on Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:09 pm

Vive l'Empereur, vive le français!         Be Afraid
Ok, good wine and runny cheese it is.

Just draw the redoubt on the map and I'll put it in the game.  As I recall it no longer exists so the size is unknown.

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Re: The Battle of Shevardino - September 5th 1812

Post  Mr. Digby on Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:15 pm

As Kevin says, just draw a thin line on the minimap. Here is what I did for the city of Barcelona's defences on the Alpine map:

http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif

And after a but of Kevin-o-Magic we got this:

http://www.atomic-album.com/showPic.php/22426/Bar_Fr_08.jpg

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The other Martin - Charles Reille, le dernier Maréchal de France.

"Any hussar who has not got himself killed by the age of 30 is a jackass." - Antoine Charles Louis Lasalle, commander of Napoleon's light cavalry, killed in battle at Wagram 6 July 1809, aged 34.

"I had forgotten there was an objective." - Generallieutenant Mikhail Borozdin I
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Re: The Battle of Shevardino - September 5th 1812

Post  MJP on Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:32 pm

oh goodness, this has opened up a whole new world for me and productivity at work is about to drop through the floor. Thank goodness for the holidays!

While impatiently waiting (patience, not a strong suit!) for instruction, i started messing about with figuring out the different map files needed. I mapped them to the ones i needed, renamed new versions as necessary, and opened up my new Shevardino.bmp in photoshop. I found the grayscale color of 190 in the new Shevardino.csv for the map as "breastwork", set the RGB colors to 190, drew a 2 px line, and VOILA! A redoubt on my map. This changes everything for me in terms of being able to create scenarios.............................................

So basically, i can pretty much change anything i want just by drawing on the minimap in different gray scale colors mapped to the colors used in the map.csv file. I guess i know what i'll be doing for the next 50 hours......................................eek.
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Re: The Battle of Shevardino - September 5th 1812

Post  kg little mac on Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:38 pm

Kevin (I think) can also make the breastworks have an even higher defensive value.

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Re: The Battle of Shevardino - September 5th 1812

Post  MJP on Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:40 pm

Yes, that is an option in the map.csv file. You can change all sorts of things.
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Re: The Battle of Shevardino - September 5th 1812

Post  Uncle Billy on Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:44 pm

MJP wrote:So basically, i can pretty much change anything i want just by drawing on the minimap in different gray scale colors mapped to the colors used in the map.csv file.
Almost. The defensive value will only apply to those two pixels. In other words, anything not sitting in the breastwork itself will get no defensive benefit. You want to paint everything inside the redoubt in color 191. We will then need to change the movement and fatigue penalties for that color.

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Re: The Battle of Shevardino - September 5th 1812

Post  MJP on Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:02 pm

Yeah, i noticed it's basically like a wall where you have to be on it to get benefit. I'm assuming then that 191 provides the value but without the graphic. And if so, because these are two different color values, i'm assuming that guys actually ON the breastwork can be set to have a higher benefit than guys INSIDE the breastwork but not actually ON the graphic. This whole thing is quite interesting.

Just for fun, trying to figure out how to get a building graphic on the map. I can see how you can draw a farm or a town, but can't figure out how to get a building to show up.....

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Re: The Battle of Shevardino - September 5th 1812

Post  Uncle Billy on Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:08 pm

MJP wrote:Yeah, i noticed it's basically like a wall where you have to be on it to get benefit. I'm assuming then that 191 provides the value but without the graphic. And if so, because these are two different color values, i'm assuming that guys actually ON the breastwork can be set to have a higher benefit than guys INSIDE the breastwork but not actually ON the graphic.
Yes, all correct.
Just for fun, trying to figure out how to get a building graphic on the map. I can see how you can draw a farm or a town, but can't figure out how to get a building to show up.....
Putting buildings on the map is quite another thing. They are not painted on the bmp like the different terrain types. Rather they are put directly on the battlefield. It takes different software.

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Re: The Battle of Shevardino - September 5th 1812

Post  MJP on Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:20 pm

That's unfortunate.......

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Re: The Battle of Shevardino - September 5th 1812

Post  MJP on Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:44 pm

One last question - how come if I just make the entire MAP color 255 (open ground) it doesn't erase everything off the map?

This is one of those situations where i understand just enough to totally frustrate myself. ;-)
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Re: The Battle of Shevardino - September 5th 1812

Post  Mr. Digby on Tue Dec 30, 2014 8:17 pm

LOL, looks like the KS group has a new map editor person Smile

Kevin invented square stone wall objects that he calls "town blocks". These are the standard rubble-wall graphic but have a very high defensive value inside them, like a mini redoubt for infantry only. We treat these as strong buildings like churches, granaries, stone farms like la Haye Sainte, etc and a unit in square within them is pretty hard to shift. Without going into the chore of placing buildings on the maps it lets us show a town with a few of them, and gives a feeling for town fighting as the 'buildings' can be occupied. Putting the defenders inside them in square serves several purposes - first the formation is facing out in every direction which looks more logical, second it can fire in every direction (but puts out most of its fire on the side with the flag) so it has no flanks and third it has a monster melee ability due to the square. A few of these supporting each other in 3 or 4 closely spaced walled enclosures would make a tough position.

http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif?sort=3&o=3

Because it allows troops to 'occupy' the buildings I prefer this to the eye-candy only houses. Also because they are just walls it doesn't look like the Russians and French are fighting in downtown 1860s Richmond.

Most Russian villages would have been wooden though, even their churches so use them sparingly for 1812 scenarios.

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"Any hussar who has not got himself killed by the age of 30 is a jackass." - Antoine Charles Louis Lasalle, commander of Napoleon's light cavalry, killed in battle at Wagram 6 July 1809, aged 34.

"I had forgotten there was an objective." - Generallieutenant Mikhail Borozdin I
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Re: The Battle of Shevardino - September 5th 1812

Post  Uncle Billy on Tue Dec 30, 2014 8:30 pm

MJP wrote:One last question - how come if I just make the entire MAP color 255 (open ground) it doesn't erase everything off the map?

This is one of those situations where i understand just enough to totally frustrate myself. ;-)

Making everything 255 will remove all the terrain features that are put on the map via the mapname.csv file, (trees, grasses, crops, etc.). What's left is all the stuff that gets put directly onto the 3D battlefield, such as road and ground texture splats.

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Re: The Battle of Shevardino - September 5th 1812

Post  Mr. Digby on Tue Dec 30, 2014 8:39 pm

Joining in here, if I'm editing a bmp, how do I select a greyscale, of, say 190?

Also Kevin, what is the greyscale range Garnier used for his creeks? I want to go over some and make them uncrossable - so what new colour do I use and I suppose I need to add that to the map csv file.

What criteria control your town block graphics as well please?

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The other Martin - Charles Reille, le dernier Maréchal de France.

"Any hussar who has not got himself killed by the age of 30 is a jackass." - Antoine Charles Louis Lasalle, commander of Napoleon's light cavalry, killed in battle at Wagram 6 July 1809, aged 34.

"I had forgotten there was an objective." - Generallieutenant Mikhail Borozdin I
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Re: The Battle of Shevardino - September 5th 1812

Post  Uncle Billy on Tue Dec 30, 2014 9:06 pm

Martin wrote:Joining in here, if I'm editing a bmp, how do I select a grayscale, of, say 190?
That depends on your paint program. I use Gimp, (free). First, open the bmp file and set the mode to grayscale if it does not automatically open that way. Next select the foreground color and open it so you see the palette. Change the values for R, G and B to 190. Now when you draw on the bmp it will be in that color. When you save the file, make sure you do not write the color space information, (you only want the grayscale values).
Also Kevin, what is the greyscale range Garnier used for his creeks? I want to go over some and make them uncrossable - so what new colour do I use and I suppose I need to add that to the map csv file.
He uses 5, 10 and 20. You can find the values by looking in mapname.csv, where mapname is the name of the bmp file. 25 is the color to use to outline the streams to make them uncrossable.
What criteria control your town block graphics as well please?
I made a 13x13 pixel rectangle 1 pixel wide using color 87. I filled the interior with color 85. Then just copy it and paste it as a new layer wherever you need it on the bmp. If you are using Garnier's maps, you'll have to change the values for these two colors in the mapname.csv file. Use what I have written in Alpine.csv.

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Re: The Battle of Shevardino - September 5th 1812

Post  Mr. Digby on Tue Dec 30, 2014 9:16 pm

Thanks.

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The other Martin - Charles Reille, le dernier Maréchal de France.

"Any hussar who has not got himself killed by the age of 30 is a jackass." - Antoine Charles Louis Lasalle, commander of Napoleon's light cavalry, killed in battle at Wagram 6 July 1809, aged 34.

"I had forgotten there was an objective." - Generallieutenant Mikhail Borozdin I
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