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17. Battle of Pamplona - 9th December 1808

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Re: 17. Battle of Pamplona - 9th December 1808

Post  Uncle Billy on Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:28 pm

While it is understandable that the French are unhappy with a lack of fighting, think for a moment what it was like to be a Spanish commander. We were in control of troops that had zero possibility of winning a fight. We had a choice of fighting in another massacre, or running away. Does anyone think making that choice was entertaining?

While the strategic campaign has been interesting, the tactical, SOW battles are not. The problem is the disparity in quality of the two armies. Despite Martin's protests otherwise, the Spanish require overwhelming numbers to stand a good chance of winning. If that happens, the French complain they have no chance. If it doesn't, then the Spanish have none. All our battles become black and white affairs. One side will win, no matter what the other side does. The result is no one has any fun fighting these battles.

I have created enough scenarios to know what it takes to produce situations where both sides have a fair chance of winning. In this battle the Spanish had 50% more men. But to make up for the lack of experience, they would have needed double the troops they had to meet the French in a fight where both sides could win or lose.

The counter argument has been made that war is not about having a fair fight. While that is true enough, we are not fighting a war, but playing a game. In a game, both sides want a fair chance of winning. If the result is a foregone conclusion, then what's the point of wasting 3 hours to confirm it? It is the responsibility of the scenario designer to come up with a situation where both sides stand a fair chance. That doesn't necessarily mean the two armies are of the same size and quality to go toe to toe. It means a situation has to be created where a smaller inferior force can achieve some goal that will allow it a victory. By contrast, yesterday's game was just an exercise to determine how badly the Spanish would lose. We Spanish, chose the least bad outcome. While I understand the frustration the French have at not being able to destroy the Spanish army, do you really take any pleasure in a battle where all you need to do is move your forces into contact in order to win?

While the Peninsula campaign makes for a good strategic game, due almost solely to the enormous amount of work Martin has put into it, it makes for very poor SOW battles. That will always be the case due to the huge disparity in quality of the armies. The campaign has been going on for two years and that has been the situation since day one.

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Re: 17. Battle of Pamplona - 9th December 1808

Post  Mark87 on Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:12 pm

From the French perspective, all that was really necessary yesterday was a caveat that the Spanish can escape in any direction off the map. That's all we needed.

As to the strengths and weaknesses of opposing armies; the British are the best troops in the game, bar none. I've had the privilege to command them twice now and one of their battalions is equal to an entire French brigade in combat power almost! The allies have thousands of these troops.....

I think that interesting battles are most certainly coming, hell I turned down a fair fight recently. The reality is that once both sides are concentrated towards an important objective.... say Madrid tongue .... there will be a large relatively equal struggle. As for now, the Spanish do not operate strategically with the same handicaps as the French. A vast majority of French troops are guarding supply depos and keeping open lines of communication to France as is required. For example, the allied army around Burgos was significantly larger than what I was able to muster, and yet they weren't/aren't concentrated.

The allies should be able to concentrate a far larger army......
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Re: 17. Battle of Pamplona - 9th December 1808

Post  Mark87 on Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:27 pm

Additionally, I had to command the French division in the North after MJP dropped; I didn't notice any overwhelming French superiority. In fact, my infantry could not budge the Spanish until I brought my guns in line and blasted the Spanish infantry-after which they retreated. The Spanish had plenty of guns but they were not setting up. I only was able to engage one brigade but it took about 500 casualties and inflicted 600. Hardly "vast superiority".....
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Re: 17. Battle of Pamplona - 9th December 1808

Post  Uncle Billy on Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:15 pm

Hardly "vast superiority".....
Those troops all had an experience level of 1. What were yours?

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Re: 17. Battle of Pamplona - 9th December 1808

Post  Mr. Digby on Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:10 pm

The French army ranged from 7s (the 2 horse artillery batteries) to 4s (two of the line infantry 4th battalions and I think 2 of the light cavalry 4th squadrons). All the rest of the French inf and cav were 5s, with a few famous elite regts 1st and 2nd Btns, all the 1st Sqns of the cav regts, several voltigeur converged units and the foot artillery were 6s.

I think about 1/2 the Spanish infantry were 1s, another 1/3rd were 2s and there was a smattering of 3s with (I think) 1 or 2 4s and a Exp 5 guard battalion. The cavalry were 3s, with 1 sqn of 4s and 1 of 5s. The artillery were all 4s except 1 battery of 5s (it did exceptionally well in a previous battle).

I am not by any stretch suggesting that given a stand up fight we should expect this Spanish army to beat this French one, but the campaigns several Spanish wins are a proven track record that dismisses Kevin's claims. The evidence is there in the results. The Spanish with their crappy army has beaten the French a few times (albeit the early French army with its numerous reservist and march battalions, not Napoleons new army) but yesterday supported what I have said before, that its the generals that win battles, not the men. I didn't see much of the fighting but what I did see was Kevin, Pepe and Ron going up Benner's Hill and pushing Avery's cavalry division aside like it wasn't there - those are not good troops doing that, they were crummy troops led by good generals.

More than anything this campaign, both on the map and the battlefield, is a test of two player teams against each other, not two imbalanced armies. Battles are won by people making them winnable on the map. Unbalanced scenarios or not, this still makes what I hope is a challenging and fun experience.

From the French perspective, all that was really necessary yesterday was a caveat that the Spanish can escape in any direction off the map. That's all we needed.
Mark, I take your point on board and in future will try to word things differently. I also think several players new(ish) to KS games and my campaign games will be more alert in future for hidden surprises. I don't like to say things too blatantly for KS FOW reasons - like Kevin's famous and fun Austrian Supply Wagons game, yesterdays game hinged on the French working a puzzle out. The Austrian Wagons game also pulled its share of criticism mostly because an entire situation wasn't explained to one side. I like games like this, it adds a new depth of challenge. Lining up two sides and after 2 hours counting the dead is, to me, what I see as a boring evening.

I am trying to provide variation in these games, where the situation allows. To be told "that was a complete waste of my time" by someone is not pleasant. Some people are very used to playing certain styles of game. Everyone is different. Another thread on this forum has seen several posts supportive of imbalanced scenarios. Yesterday was a taste of my scenario design. If its a waste of your time then do please spend your valuable time doing something else. The imbalance inherent in the Peninsular armies is to me what makes these games interesting. Players are getting experienced now in what they can and can't do. Two out of three potential battles this turn were avoided by that method - not me rolling dice to decide who won or not but clever players refusing odds they didn't like or able to slip away when threatened.

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Re: 17. Battle of Pamplona - 9th December 1808

Post  kg little mac on Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:27 pm

"While the Peninsula campaign makes for a good strategic game, due almost solely to the enormous amount of work Martin has put into it, it makes for very poor SOW battles. That will always be the case due to the huge disparity in quality of the armies. The campaign has been going on for two years and that has been the situation since day one."

We've had some decent battles.  But, for the most part, I agree.

The problem, as I see it, with this campaign is that it's, for the most part, map-centric.  The campaign will be won or lost on the map and not on the battlefield.

I prefer battles that are made to be good battles.  The designer, usually Kevin, has every tool available to make the games fun and interesting.

Martin's campaign does not give him that luxury.  He's constrained by the map aspect of the campaign.

So it's completely reasonable that the campaign games may not be as enjoyable as the non-campaign battles we play.

P.S. Sorry I missed the battles this weekend. The in-laws decided to come visit Saturday morning and didn't leave until Sunday evening.
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Re: 17. Battle of Pamplona - 9th December 1808

Post  Mark87 on Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:53 pm

The thing that was tricky was the inclusion of the two roads as being the only useable campaign roads; that is like writing the gun above the fireplace and not using it. If that wasn't included we would have worked it out on our own; namely with a strong pursuit. Because the road network was still under our control, we assumed that the Spanish would have to take control of said road-either north or south. That was the root of our confusion. We were positioning our forces to block Spanish access to the Southern road rather than riding hell for leather in pursuit!

I still frankly enjoy the campaign battles more than our balanced weekly scenarios, though, while quite good, don't have the meaning that I ascribe to campaign battle. It just goes to show that Napoleonic campaigns were a six months to a year affair with a culminate of a major battle: both sides entered that battle with the belief that they can prevail.

We will have that in the Peninsula and it will be much, much more engaging than a random French/Russian/Austrian affair because of all the work and map deductions we have taken. There have been much that is "unfair," but that unfairness has, for me, been quite an enjoyable problem to solve!

I do enjoy the massive clashes we have fought: but I use them more as a training session for when there comes such a significant clash in our campaign. I do believe that will not be far off in advance. One must remember that the Peninsula war lasted a good seven years and there were only a little over a dozen "major" battles.

Anyway I enjoy each game played and I more get annoyed with myself rather than anything. I should have listened to Jones, our intelligence specialist Cool
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Re: 17. Battle of Pamplona - 9th December 1808

Post  WJPalmer on Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:34 pm

I concur that the campaign battles are typically lots of fun (as are the weekly ad hoc games). The two additional elements that make campaign matches special are real carryover impacts of events and the knowledge that the setups are typically quite asymmetrical. For me, at least, there is some additional tension leading up to these battles -- much the same as regular-season football games vs. pre-season. It is a feature missing from virtually all other formats in SoW. And the asymmetry makes for something unique as well. Yesterday was a good example. We Spanish were lamenting the hopelessness of our situation in our pre-battle council. About the best (we thought) we could hope for was to get anyone out alive, which engendered a go-for-broke outlook. I imagine the French council probably had a very different flavor, but brought its own tension. The French were expected to win big, which in and of itself creates stress (of high expectations). The cool thing is that this is the only place currently in SoW where it is possible to experience either of these. We have Martin (and past campaign designers) to thank for it.

Having now been on both sides of one of these things (I was on the losing/confused side in the "Austrian Wagons" scenario), I've come to appreciate the subtlety that's built in and the importance of reading the briefings VERY closely. This can make it difficult and frustrating for last-minute walk-ons in these affairs -- and makes it very important for CinC's to be detail-oriented and plan in advance.

The campaign is entertaining and satisfying, but I don't think it's necessarily everyone's cup of tea. If all one wants is quick, hard-hitting stand-up shoot outs with lots of blood, you're better sticking to GCM. But if you're into lots of variables, asymmetrical battles, and don't mind experiencing various degrees of confusion along the way to resolution of each chess match, campaigns are a big deal.

This thread points out what can happen when two worlds collide. I like to think most of us are capable of enjoying both.
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Re: 17. Battle of Pamplona - 9th December 1808

Post  MJP on Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:36 pm

I was only in the game for about 15 minutes at most, so my perspective should be tempered by that.   I purposely took the northern Division because i've been having windows 8 crash problems and the idea there was that the northern division would mostly be moving around the city to get south so if i did crash, I probably wouldn't be engaged.   As it turned out, minutes into the game i could see Spanish coming up and moving east across a river so i tried to come up and interfere.   So as it turned out, the division i was in control of, was probably the more critical of the two, though i don't think it really mattered that much in any case as the outcome from what i understand was a forgone conclusion.  

Here are my observations/issues with the game:

1.  French have 1000 cavalry deployed east and nothing else.   Allies can just push that out of the way and reach their apparent safe zone to nowhere.   This doesn't make for a very interesting MP SOW Battle at all.   We play these games for the fun of engaging and sometimes the designs get too cute.   Given the situation it would have been better to just resolve this within the campaign not as an SOW Battle.

2.  I didn't think it was at all realistic that the French were not allowed to enter the town at all.   How you can effectively pursue a full besieged enemy that is withdrawing from the town if you can't enter the town?   Why can't you assault a town if the enemy is abandoning a town?   How are their places to exit the town, but no way to enter the town?   Didn't make sense to me at all, but the game would have conceivably more interesting if the French were allowed to go anywhere they wanted on the map.   Forcing them to go around the town while the enemy is abandoning it made a poor scenario all the more so.

3.  Good luck to the allies heading off east into the Pyranees in winter.  Yet that being said, i'm quite sure that there will be a rationale given later for their survival.  

4.  Pamplona should not be still under siege, it should be French at this point.   This part of Martin's comments make no sense to me.  See point 2 above.  

5.  Given the initial setup of the Map, at least the French specific one showing opening deployments, the result was a foregone conclusion.   They have two bridges to escape via and the French have a bridge to the north of that and little to no chance to actually catch them.    This is compounded further by Point 2 above because in order to try to interfere with the SPanish withdrawl you have to move up to the edge of the city and eat cannister.   You of course can't charge the guns or enter the city and you eat more cannister.  So the allied escape to the east was in practical terms impossible to do anything about.  

In closing, i do understand it can be difficult to create balanced games given the context of the campaign.   But scenarios where one side is encouraged to run and the other side pretty much can't do anything about it are indeed less than a good use of one's time.    Any game like that should just be decided at the campaign level without an SOW battle.  I think the temptation here was to fight it as a SOW battle simply because there hasn't been a campaign battle in quite some time but that tempation should be resisted and only balanced, interesting battles should move from the campaign map to a tactical SOW battle.  

In closing, i think Kevin has a point as well that the nature of the Penninsula campaign with disparate troop quality and numbers makes for uninteresting SOW Scenarios unfortunately. In order to keep the campaign interesting, the French troop numbers have to be far too low relative to the Spanish or because of troop quality the battles will be one sided affairs. The flip side of this however is that in the campaign itself, the French don't have enough map numbers to actually do much as they are constantly outnumbered. SO as Martin pointed out, Pamplona was besieged by a small force. I would counter to name anyplace at all in the campaign where the relative troop numbers aren't pretty much exactly the same.

Matt


Last edited by MJP on Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: 17. Battle of Pamplona - 9th December 1808

Post  Mark87 on Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:45 pm

For point 3, I don't see how any army could survive a serious pursuit. Let's hope Mortier has the good sense to finish the matter.
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Re: 17. Battle of Pamplona - 9th December 1808

Post  MJP on Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:51 pm

I don't see how any army could pack up and march off so easily after being surrounded for so long.

I also don't see how or why the French wouldn't have destroyed those two bridges leaving the city to the east prior to the battle. That seems obvious to me that if you're only going to have a few cavalry watching over there, why leave those escape routes open (even if it escapes to nowhere). Again, the battle would have been far more interesting if the allies had to go south.

I actually thought this had the potential initially to be an interesting game. What i THOUGHT was that the spanish would leave quickly via the south and have a finite amount of time to overwhelm the southern french division with their full force before the northern french troops went around the city to the west to try to get involved. If able to do that, they have made their escape. If not, they probably end up getting crushed. To me, seems a relatively fair game and probably more realistic than what actually occurred in the game...

Matt
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Re: 17. Battle of Pamplona - 9th December 1808

Post  Iberalc on Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:50 pm

About the French options, my biggest concern was a French force crossing the river at Novi and cutting our retreat route.

Ron has mentioned the wagons scenario, and yesterday after the game I thought about their similarity as well. I was the French CinC and based all my plan on the existence of an Austrian depot. The Austrians will have to fight for it, they won’t be able to move west if we take the depot and so on. I saw the wagons (and I am sure Ron too), and they could have gone to the moon, I ordered everyone to the depot, I was focus on the depot, my plan too. I believe the same happened yesterday to a certain degree.

The point I want to make is that in both battles, one side knew exactly what to do and the other had to guess to some extend (even when there is a logic behind the scenario design, war is so complicated).

So maybe it would be an improvement to include and the end of the briefing something like:

MISSION:
Your marshal baton awaits you, provided you rout the Spanish Army avoiding for them to scape in any direction.

MISSION:
Avoid any Austrian advance to the West from Barsch (if not I am supposed to cover the whole map from north to south so I am weak everywhere).

I accept the decision of a French victory, I don’t think it was a Spanish victory at all. But I think the Spanish team did a good job under the circumstances so a draw would have been this battle’s result IMHO.

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Re: 17. Battle of Pamplona - 9th December 1808

Post  Mr. Digby on Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:25 pm

I've taken everyone's comments on board and will try to do better in future. That's all I can offer. All the points raised against the scenario in posts like Matt's I have previously explained anyway so I won't repeat myself.

I ask that campaign game players in future read and digest very carefully any briefings posted here or given in TS.

I warn you to be aware that you may not always get all the information you need to win, I don't, and never will, hold people's hands, I let them work out what should be done, giving a few clues. Some games are obvious stand up fights like Vimerio was, others will be more obscure. Please be prepared to deal with the obscure ones.

I also would like to say that I personally will not put up with any more whining sessions in TS after a game. This is immature and the KS Group prides itself on reasoned arguments put forward in a positive way. Right after you had victory snatched from you emotions can be running high and 5 minutes after a game closes no-one has the full facts before them, often not even me if I was playing from saddle height like the rest of you. Holding back your views to a forum post the next day allows you time to sleep on things, review the replay, look at the game dump, and so on. I know I'm not perfect, I know I make mistakes, however I'm doing the best I can and I hope you'll join me for more of this type of game where the strategy beyond the edge of the 5 mile map is the most important real estate.

Maybe we'll see the British in action soon, with a Talavera-esque Spanish force alongside them. I am looking forward to a battle of that sort.

On the map side of things I am not happy with the 50% movement rule in winter, its too slow. If we ever get to do another winter I'll make it about 2/3rds speed. The die role for 0% to 3% attrition is too high as well, that'll be lowered next year. I've been looking at the true pace of Napoleon's 1808 winter campaign and its possible that the good weather seasons move rates are not quite high enough either. The situation in history though was that Napoleons army fanned out from Irun in several directions and within a few weeks smashed several Spanish armies in the middle and upper Ebro valley. Incompetently the Spanish had nothing in reserve behind this fragile crust and that allowed Napoleon to smash on to Madrid via Somosierra quickly. Our campaign Spanish generals are more astute and are not allowing themselves to be trapped and crushed in turn by better French armies so the campaign could be shifting more slowly for that reason as well. The 50% winter move rate is definitely to blame, at least partly.

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Re: 17. Battle of Pamplona - 9th December 1808

Post  Mark87 on Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:52 pm

The campaign map is a constant back and forth. Its wonderful.
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Re: 17. Battle of Pamplona - 9th December 1808

Post  MJP on Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:17 am

Just to clarify, I enjoy the campaign part and can definitely see some interesting battles in the future.   Further, if my own corps was involved I would probably prefer to have the battle on in the SOW engine than to simply have it adjudicated.   However, in this case neither campaign "commander" was actually present for the game.   So perhaps it would have been best to just adjudicate the result rather than have an SOW KS game.

For me, I enjoy the campaign and enjoy the KS Nappy SOW games independently of one another.   I'll probably get max enjoyment from the combination of the two once a campaign turn results in my own campaign troops fighting it out in Nappy SOW or results in a more traditional set piece battle with Napoleon and the English.  

And with hindsight, who knows what would have happened if I hadn't dropped.  Certainly more pressure would have been put on the Spanish armies escaping to the East.   Would it have made a difference?  I can't say for sure and the Spanish were already well on their way and racing towards Jones before I even started to engage them. But Mark having to take command of my troops from far away certainly gave the Spanish the time that they needed to complete their eastward escape.  

It is a LOT of work to set these scenarios up.  It also takes a lot of time and commitment to play the games, some players not even being part of the campaign. I think for all involved, it would probably be helpful to be highly selective as to which engagements actually get translated to the SOW Engine and which are simply adjudicated.
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Re: 17. Battle of Pamplona - 9th December 1808

Post  WJPalmer on Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:19 pm

Mark wrote:The campaign map is a constant back and forth. Its wonderful.

It's scary to find myself agreeing with Mark twice in a row Wink but I likewise really enjoy the map movement aspect. Reminds me of my old Avalon Hill board wargame days in the 60's & 70's, I suppose. But this is even better because we have someone in the middle making true fog-of-war possible -- something very difficult to achieve on a physical board game. My heart warms at the sight of hexagons.
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Re: 17. Battle of Pamplona - 9th December 1808

Post  Mr. Digby on Wed Mar 04, 2015 12:14 am

I did notice your sexy battle plan map you set up for the French-Russian game we played recently on the west half of the Fox's Gap map. The Russian units looked a lot like Avalon Hill counters. Is that some graphic pack you bought and if so which graphics software do you use?

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Re: 17. Battle of Pamplona - 9th December 1808

Post  WJPalmer on Wed Mar 04, 2015 12:27 am

No graphic pack -- just an Adobe Illustrator Design used in conjunction with Photoshop. I'll send you what I use. It makes use of several dozen Photoshop unit "layers" which are easily moved around your map.
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Re: 17. Battle of Pamplona - 9th December 1808

Post  Father General on Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:41 am

I hate not being able to attack something. There must be something I can strike.

You see, the French wear blue uniforms. That is all I need to know...

Despite being unable to participate in campaign battles thus far (a matter that will not longer be the case within a few weeks) I have enjoyed my interactions. I feel largely like I am playing a solitaire game, but I know that is coming to an end. This campaign has been enjoyable and I look forward to playing a decisive part in its conclusion.

I have played somewhat defensively, not by choice, thus far. I feel I need a shower after each turn where I do not order an attack. It just feels wrong to stand while in sight of the enemy. I can't explain this. I need professional help. LOL
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Re: 17. Battle of Pamplona - 9th December 1808

Post  Mark87 on Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:11 am

WJPalmer wrote:It's scary to find myself agreeing with Mark twice in a row Wink but I likewise really enjoy the map movement aspect. Reminds me of my old Avalon Hill board wargame days in the 60's & 70's, I suppose. But this is even better because we have someone in the middle making true fog-of-war possible -- something very difficult to achieve on a physical board game. My heart warms at the sight of hexagons.

I just feel that the fact that I have been carefully planning and executing a campaign now, in real life terms, since November (my gf thinks I am totally nuts btw, pouring over a poster board size map of Spain with little sticky's attached indicating corps, armys, depos.....) and that when a battle actually occurs, a battle that is going to seriously effect those plans, the thesis of which go back three months, that battle is going to create unreal tension. At least for me.
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Re: 17. Battle of Pamplona - 9th December 1808

Post  Mr. Digby on Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:20 am

Blake, Castanos, Acevedo, Soult and Cuesta are their original players. We have other originals in the game like Josh (was King Joseph, is now Victor). Those people have plans based on two years of work.

Also there's me. The fact that - apart from a longish hiatus when I was ill - two years of my hobby time have almost exclusively gone into this venture may explain partly why I get a weeny bit defensive and protective when things go wrong. It's my baby and I hate seeing people unhappy with it, especially if they bite at me with displeased comments. Maybe that helps explain some of my defensive attitude... for which I do apologise if it ruffles people's feathers.

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The other Martin - Charles Reille, le dernier Maréchal de France.

"Any hussar who has not got himself killed by the age of 30 is a jackass." - Antoine Charles Louis Lasalle, commander of Napoleon's light cavalry, killed in battle at Wagram 6 July 1809, aged 34.

"I had forgotten there was an objective." - Generallieutenant Mikhail Borozdin I
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Re: 17. Battle of Pamplona - 9th December 1808

Post  Robert M on Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:53 pm

I, for one ,regret my rather pointed reactin to the bttle.... The feelings were as stated, but I could have tempered the conveyance somewhat.... No need to rehash the reasons, as all has been stated.

I fully appreciate all the incredible effort that has gone into creating this world snd the opportunity for all the pleasure that you have singlehandedly given all those participating, Digby.

I really must say, Digby, you are obviously quite insane and without the great joy that you provide to all the folks here, I would suggest that you seek help....

That of course, would be a great loss.
(so selfishly I advise "don't do that")
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Re: 17. Battle of Pamplona - 9th December 1808

Post  Mr. Digby on Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:34 pm

You're forgiven! Its why I rarely speak if there's problems 5 minutes after a battle has gone wrong, that often ends up in an ugly slanging match and no-one wants that. It helps everyone to explain things on the forum a day or two later. I'm concerned that the principal unhappy player from Sunday hasn't participated in this conversation.

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The other Martin - Charles Reille, le dernier Maréchal de France.

"Any hussar who has not got himself killed by the age of 30 is a jackass." - Antoine Charles Louis Lasalle, commander of Napoleon's light cavalry, killed in battle at Wagram 6 July 1809, aged 34.

"I had forgotten there was an objective." - Generallieutenant Mikhail Borozdin I
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Re: 17. Battle of Pamplona - 9th December 1808

Post  JKnight on Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:48 pm

Just wanted to apologies for my overreaction to the outcome of the last hits campaign game, I have been really looking forward to a fight in the campaign for some time, and was just a little disappointed that I didn't get to shoot anyone ha. I do understand that there are fights that don’t go the way you may want them and that sometimes if battle is planed there may still be no fighting.  I know you put a lot of hard work and a lot your time in to this for all of use to enjoy.

     I do appreciate it and thanks for all that you do.
Josh (Knight)
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Re: 17. Battle of Pamplona - 9th December 1808

Post  Mr. Digby on Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:49 pm

Thank you Josh, your input here is very welcome. I am sure once the Brits turn up we'll have a battle to satisfy even you!

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The other Martin - Charles Reille, le dernier Maréchal de France.

"Any hussar who has not got himself killed by the age of 30 is a jackass." - Antoine Charles Louis Lasalle, commander of Napoleon's light cavalry, killed in battle at Wagram 6 July 1809, aged 34.

"I had forgotten there was an objective." - Generallieutenant Mikhail Borozdin I
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Mr. Digby

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Re: 17. Battle of Pamplona - 9th December 1808

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