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Last nights HITS

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Re: Last nights HITS

Post  7thGalaxy on Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:44 pm

It'd be nice to have some sort of observer slot who could be GM in the bigger games.

I have a question about the smoke mod - I've been playing with it on recently, it really adds to the feel for the game I think. However, It does leave me at a distinct disadvantage - when there's heavy fighting, I can't see a thing. Is there a case for making it part of the game setup?

Tom
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Re: Last nights HITS

Post  Mark87 on Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:49 pm

Firstly, I really don't care who wins or loses any particular game, GCM or KS, which has pissed off some individuals in the past. Those that have known me for awhile can, I think, sense that I am being sarcastic almost always.Cool  I say things like Mr. 7-0 just because certain individuals actually get a rise out of that and that makes me laugh Very Happy sorry.  I like KS because of the wide range of scenarios and house rules that give the game variety: GCM got pretty stale as it is virtually the same system the same game everyday (things have been changing there however). So, in essence, the sole reason I play here is due to house rules.

I'm not really that interested in a "stand up battle" more than occasionally; I like the asymmetrical scenarios and challenges that arise from that. I get more enjoyment out of riding to a hill and seeing 30,000 troops marching across the horizon; though we were losing it was awesome to watching our relatively tiny French column being pursued by a HORDE of Austrians.

I have never, nor will I ever, violate a house rule or a scenario guideline. Furthermore, it was one French cavalry squadron who charged and then retreated, then took its own path to rejoin its comrades. Being that I could not give it an order individually when I rode over and I had to find its commander and ride him over, I hardly see how that was an egregious violation. Secondly, watch the replay, the lone squadron only made it about 1/3 up the ridge before I assumed control. Lastly, the Austrian cavalry rode up and over the ridge in brigade strength, I actually fought a squadron or two with my infantry and then rode over the ridge!

As an aside, Mr. Digby, in regards to gentlemen rules, I was referring to the actual game combat mechanics; house rules are one thing but to try and regulate the actual mechanics (IE no melee fighting) I think is a losing battle in a game where one does not have total control over the actions of his units.

I was not referring to not being able to enter woods or cross streams, I was referring to not being able to melee or having to use the guns a certain way ect.
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Re: Last nights HITS

Post  Guest on Tue Apr 14, 2015 3:38 pm

Tom that is a great point. I have found that in the past when decisions were made by the GM regardless of what side he maybe on have been fair and just. Maybe we don't need an actual non playing GM, just acknowledge and follow what they decide. Then after the game we can discuss it and make changes. KS group has grown on me, I am just here for a good game and I really hate it when people can't follow simple rules and adjust their gaming concepts when asked to do so by the GM.

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Re: Last nights HITS

Post  Mark87 on Tue Apr 14, 2015 3:43 pm

Tom, I'd be all in favor of using the smoke mod. I didn't even know one existed. I like anything that adds to the immersion.
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Re: Last nights HITS

Post  7thGalaxy on Tue Apr 14, 2015 3:45 pm

It becomes massively chaotic - after a few mins of firefight, you can't see 20 yards, and have to ride along your line to see how different battalions are doing. It's also lovely to watch when someone is engaging a little way away - a bank of smoke rolling out of a valley.

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Re: Last nights HITS

Post  Mark87 on Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:22 pm

Thanks buddy that sounds great!
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Re: Last nights HITS

Post  Uncle Billy on Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:24 pm

Here's a link to the Smoke Mod: More Smoke Mod

I haven't made it a part of the Nappy mod because some people might find it too difficult to command their troops with it on. I always use it and find it adds a great deal of realism. It is very easy to add to the Nappy mod if people would like to have it.

I am testing some changes to reduce the number of successful melees against fresh defending troops. It involves mostly slowing the attacker down. I am aiming to create 10% casualties in the attacker's formation with one fresh battalion of equal size firing at it, (experience 5). That should be enough to give the edge to the defender. It will hopefully encourage people to prepare the battlefield with artillery before launching an assault.

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Re: Last nights HITS

Post  Mark87 on Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:53 pm

Kevin, is there a way to institute a fire effectiveness based upon moral? For example, having a high moral rested battalion deliver a fire that is 100% of their capabilities, and decreasing based upon losing moral and fatigue?

That way, softening up battalions via artillery will not simply be solely about casualties but also about causing a decreased moral. In GCM shell and shrapnel effect moral negatively; can we mod simply being under cannon fire as causing a decrease in moral (IE then a decrease in combat effectiveness?).

Sorry, these are just ideas. I'm fine with the game as is and in any form.

And, yes you should add the smoke mod!
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Re: Last nights HITS

Post  Uncle Billy on Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:08 pm

Yes, reduced fire due to moral and fatigue are already in the game. Tired or shaky troops do not inflict nearly the casualties as fresh ones. It is not as pronounced as in GCM though.

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Re: Last nights HITS

Post  Mr. Digby on Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:25 pm

I tried the smoke mod and didn't like it - it was too dense. I use the smoke mod lite v2 (sop its called). The smoke is still denser than the default but not so thick as the full smoke mod.

Infantry speed. I would be up for testing a game with the infantry run speed set to the same speed as the walk. Infantry really only broke into a faster pace (and never an all-out run) for the last few dozen yards it seems so these long running moves are rather anachronistic.

I am also in favour of:

1) Running having a bigger impact on fatigue more quickly
2) More powerful musketry if we can tweak it
3) Melee combat causes MUCH higher fatigue levels (unfortunately this wrecks cavalry whereas I really only want to hamstring the infantry effect)
4) Melees cause really few casualties so an attacker can no longer 'bounce' a big high-quality battalion through an enemy formation - we might achieve this by making the Edged factor in the OOBs really low, like 0 or 1.
5) More powerful artillery effects. Our artillery is still not as devastating as it should be.

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Re: Last nights HITS

Post  midgetmanifesto on Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:03 am

Would it be possible to drastically increase the cavalry endurance/fatigue capacity to offset a melee increase in fatigue?
What might be the undesired results of this?
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Re: Last nights HITS

Post  Uncle Billy on Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:12 am

Would it be possible to drastically increase the cavalry endurance/fatigue capacity to offset a melee increase in fatigue?
No, every unit can have a maximum of 1,000 fatigue points.

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Re: Last nights HITS

Post  midgetmanifesto on Wed Apr 15, 2015 7:05 am

Could you make cavalry regain energy (lose fatigue) faster than infantry?
I'm probably at risk of offering up tons of ideas that have been proposed and/or are impossible. Is there threads somewhere that discuss the things you can modify? Or do you have to open up files and decipher what the values do oneself?
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Re: Last nights HITS

Post  Mr. Digby on Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:37 am

Kevin is the guru on this but my understanding is that one change to something like how much terrain slows down troops (expressed as a % of speed), how much melee fatigues troops, how quickly troops recover fatigue and morale, etc is done in a way that it affects ALL troops equally. The game was designed for ACW and the behaviour and different needs of cavalry really wasn't taken into account at all in the basic game. Its a great pity, but we are stuck with it. If melee exhausts infantry fast, it'll be the same for cavalry (is my understanding - as I said I'm no expert).

What we have managed to do is allow infantry to charge and melee in woods whereas cavalry in the mod don't. This is a huge breakthrough I think and I don't know how Kevin did it. Unfortunately this in itself leads to gamey situations where infantry players stuff their commands into woods and march through woods to get across the battlefield just to be safe from cavalry. Historically of course woods were almost always avoided due to how much they slowed marches and caused disruption and fatigue.

If the Waterloo game doesn't address such issues (treating cav and inf as separate entities for terrain effects) it will be a major dropped ball by NSD.

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The other Martin - Charles Reille, le dernier Maréchal de France.

"Any hussar who has not got himself killed by the age of 30 is a jackass." - Antoine Charles Louis Lasalle, commander of Napoleon's light cavalry, killed in battle at Wagram 6 July 1809, aged 34.

"I had forgotten there was an objective." - Generallieutenant Mikhail Borozdin I
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Re: Last nights HITS

Post  Uncle Billy on Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:46 pm

Fatigue from running can be different for infantry and cavalry, so it would be possible to tire out an infantry assault. Of course all infantry running would subject to this. That's OK if all troops are under human control. But the AI doesn't know that running would be a bad idea. Any troops not under direct human control would be at a distinct disadvantage.

Since one of the goals is to fight larger battles, we have to depend on the AI to do some of the fighting as humans can't micromanage very many troops. We regressed to smaller divisions for a while as we had a number of GCMer begin playing and just learning how to command troops with couriers from saddle height is a chore. Now that they are mostly comfortable with that I have recently been adding the new discomfort of larger, (3 brigade), divisions into the scenarios again. That requires a reliance on the AI. affraid It's always something.

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Re: Last nights HITS

Post  7thGalaxy on Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:47 pm

Can we make running slower? Or teach the AI not to run?

Tom
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Re: Last nights HITS

Post  Mark87 on Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:59 pm

I still haven't grasped the courier system for commanding AI; I nearly wrecked MJP's battleline last time I tried. Though thanks to Palmer's courteous demonstrations I now grasp the command map.

I'm very happy expanding the complexity of the game.
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Re: Last nights HITS

Post  Uncle Billy on Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:17 pm

Can we make running slower? Or teach the AI not to run?
We cannot 'teach' the AI anything. It is all hardcoded. The next game is suppose to make the AI accessible.

In the changes I'm making, one of the things I've done is slow down the infantry running speed. Combined with the slowness of the formations, an attack column leaves quite a trail of dead bodies as it charges a fresh battalion. Twisted Evil Assaults on tired and/or damaged battalions by fresh troops should be mostly successful. I'm hoping these changes will force the use of artillery to soften up the enemy and keeping a reserve on hand both for the defense and inevitable attack.

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Re: Last nights HITS

Post  7thGalaxy on Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:29 pm

Sounds good!
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Re: Last nights HITS

Post  Mr. Digby on Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:38 pm

Sounds like a step in the right direction. Could we make artillery slightly more effective as well? We nearly never see artillery bombardments in our games. Maybe we should make artillery very effective but limit their ammo even more, so a 15 minute bombardment does real damage but expends those batteries as well, making it vital to keep some guns in reserve.

Could we make counterbattery fire less effective? Severl recent games I have noticed are decided almost by the two sides guns duking it out with one losing quite quickly making a defence by the remaining infantry almost impossible.

If infantry and cavalry gain fatigue differently for running, do they gain it differently for melee? If they do that might be another way to make a player weigh his options before going into melee with battalions.

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The other Martin - Charles Reille, le dernier Maréchal de France.

"Any hussar who has not got himself killed by the age of 30 is a jackass." - Antoine Charles Louis Lasalle, commander of Napoleon's light cavalry, killed in battle at Wagram 6 July 1809, aged 34.

"I had forgotten there was an objective." - Generallieutenant Mikhail Borozdin I
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Re: Last nights HITS

Post  WJPalmer on Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:46 pm

Just a quick note of caution. There's quite a laundry list being assembled for proposed mod adjustments, with some appearing more promising than others. Given the law of unintended consequences, I think it would it might be wise to prioritize and implement the most important 1 or 2 and consider the results, before moving down the list to the less important/more dubious among the suggestions. SoW is a complexity of interactions, and if things go south after introducing a bunch of new variables, it might be difficult to know just which tweaks are responsible.
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Re: Last nights HITS

Post  Uncle Billy on Wed Apr 15, 2015 6:06 pm

Ron's caution is quite apropos. I'd like to test the changes that I specifically made to address the early use of assault columns. That in itself might create a problem for some other part of the game. I tried it in single player and did not see anything that looked like a problem, but we need more eyes looking at it. Perhaps Monday's HITS game would be a time to try it out.

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Re: Last nights HITS

Post  Mr. Digby on Wed Apr 15, 2015 7:09 pm

Sure. Or Friday... or whichever of Saturday or Sunday is not hosting the Big Bash.

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The other Martin - Charles Reille, le dernier Maréchal de France.

"Any hussar who has not got himself killed by the age of 30 is a jackass." - Antoine Charles Louis Lasalle, commander of Napoleon's light cavalry, killed in battle at Wagram 6 July 1809, aged 34.

"I had forgotten there was an objective." - Generallieutenant Mikhail Borozdin I
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Re: Last nights HITS

Post  SolInvictus202 on Wed Apr 15, 2015 7:58 pm

First cure to be implemented in the mod (highest priority)... "Make every computer tase the person with the biggest ego at the beginning of the battle and then move down in the correct order - decreasing from a lethal dose to just a small jolt...
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Re: Last nights HITS

Post  WJPalmer on Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:45 pm

Present company excluded? Razz
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Re: Last nights HITS

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