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AI Squares

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AI Squares

Post  Taff1943 on Mon Aug 31, 2015 4:39 pm

Played a lot of SP lately (because I can’t fit in MP at the moment)
Played in God mode to see what happens around the battlefield There seems a random chance that the infantry will form square (not just the ones in open order)
Has any one else seen this? Played with KS mod

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Re: AI Squares

Post  Mr. Digby on Mon Aug 31, 2015 4:53 pm

According to NSD there is a calculation the infantry battalion makes when it sees cavalry within a certain distance. It will form square if it sees the cavalry far enough away to react in time (whatever process that is). Other times it either doesn't see them soon enough or the calculation is processed too late and a square isn't formed.

At least I think that is what happens.

What I dislike is the skirmisher reaction which is always to run away. They never attempt to form squares. Can the KS mod have them attempt to do this? It was a fairly common tactic as I understand it, though the squares were usually smaller and ad-hoc in nature, but they still had a hedgehog of bayonets which the cavalry wouldn't contact.

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Re: AI Squares

Post  Uncle Billy on Mon Aug 31, 2015 5:53 pm

Skirmisher are explicitly excluded from forming squares. I found a place in the code where the decision is made. Hopefully it is the only place. I wouldn't want to always allow skirmishers the ability to form a square. They were pretty spread out so their ability to spot the threat, relay the danger to their comrades and then run to a spot to clump together in time would be somewhat problematic. We could easily make this a weighted random occurrence. For starters we could set this to, say, a 40% chance of being possible. If the unit passes that hurdle, it would still need to pass the other checks necessary for troops to successfully form a square. How does that sound?

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Re: AI Squares

Post  Taff1943 on Mon Aug 31, 2015 5:59 pm

These were formed infantry in the open which makes it more of a puzzle

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Re: AI Squares

Post  Mr. Digby on Mon Aug 31, 2015 6:16 pm

Taff - yes, some of the games routines do seem random, then again I think that is better than things always being certain and predictable. That would be very dull.

Kevin - that sounds good.

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The other Martin - Charles Reille, le dernier Maréchal de France.

"Any hussar who has not got himself killed by the age of 30 is a jackass." - Antoine Charles Louis Lasalle, commander of Napoleon's light cavalry, killed in battle at Wagram 6 July 1809, aged 34.

"I had forgotten there was an objective." - Generallieutenant Mikhail Borozdin I
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Re: AI Squares

Post  Taff1943 on Mon Aug 31, 2015 7:08 pm

Fully agree with that but still looking for the mythical perfect Nap war-game

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Re: AI Squares

Post  Martin on Mon Aug 31, 2015 7:22 pm

"These were formed infantry in the open which makes it more of a puzzle"

How far away from the cavalry were they when they first saw them, Taff? Even well-trained troops with good morale needed time to form square. Cavalry approaching unseen from dead ground was very dangerous.

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Re: AI Squares

Post  Taff1943 on Mon Aug 31, 2015 7:57 pm

Under continual attack from Russian Cav That's what surprised me but it was not a one off( Sandbox game as SP throws lots off Russian Cav at you)

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Re: AI Squares

Post  Mr. Digby on Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:08 pm

No perfect wargame exists of course, all attempts to create such a thing will have something in it each of us disagrees with - unless we write the code (or paper rules) ourselves.

As Martin says, even highly motivated and trained infantry could be surprised by cavalry at close quarters (Colborne at Albuera springs to mind) and I am sure there were instances where fatigue, smoke, mistaken or poor orders and other confusing factors led battalion commanders to fail to identify a threat when by rights they should have, had there been a lack of such factors. Its these infinite variables that make war such a fascinating area of study and why I take a lenient and laissez faire approach to odd events in computer games, accepting that nothing's perfect, its extremely hard to write AI code to cover everything and taking the view that "war is hell" and anything can go wrong.

SoW-WL is a pretty good base to build on. As far as our groups modding attempts go I can only ask you to bear with us while we step lightly through the minefield of what can be modded, what can't and what bites us on the backside when we change something we shouldn't (which we've found to our frustration quite a bit this last few weeks).

If you're playing the KS mod and see things in it or in the base game you think require a comment (favourable or otherwise) or would like to see something included, just mention it here and we'll take a look at it. While Kevin is our head honcho of changing the code in the mod, its a group effort and input is welcome from all.

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The other Martin - Charles Reille, le dernier Maréchal de France.

"Any hussar who has not got himself killed by the age of 30 is a jackass." - Antoine Charles Louis Lasalle, commander of Napoleon's light cavalry, killed in battle at Wagram 6 July 1809, aged 34.

"I had forgotten there was an objective." - Generallieutenant Mikhail Borozdin I
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Re: AI Squares

Post  Taff1943 on Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:42 pm

Sorry I was not moaning just pointing out something I spotted Sorry to cause offence
pale

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Re: AI Squares

Post  Martin on Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:46 pm

Don't worry Taff. You didn't cause offence. We welcome comments, so feel free to do it again!

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Re: AI Squares

Post  Uncle Billy on Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:51 pm

I don't see what's offensive. Please point it out so I can demand satisfaction. Embarassed

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Re: AI Squares

Post  Mr. Digby on Tue Sep 01, 2015 11:47 am

Sorry Taff, I wasn't intending to come across as being authoritative or overbearing - these are merely my opinions and carry only as much weight as anyone else's. The floor's open for full discussion still. bounce

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The other Martin - Charles Reille, le dernier Maréchal de France.

"Any hussar who has not got himself killed by the age of 30 is a jackass." - Antoine Charles Louis Lasalle, commander of Napoleon's light cavalry, killed in battle at Wagram 6 July 1809, aged 34.

"I had forgotten there was an objective." - Generallieutenant Mikhail Borozdin I
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Re: AI Squares

Post  Martin on Tue Sep 01, 2015 12:09 pm

"I don't see what's offensive."

Colonials drinking iced tea, sir!  I demand satisfaction from this effrontery and will meet you at 2 pm in the Bois de Boulogne.  You have choice of weapons - rubber bands or paper darts?

B H Grumble Esq


Last edited by Martin on Tue Sep 01, 2015 1:22 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : elegance)

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Re: AI Squares

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