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32. Battle of Astorga - 4th April 1809

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Re: 32. Battle of Astorga - 4th April 1809

Post  lordjoe1234 on Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:34 am

at the time of the attack the fight I was in in was still very much uncertain on who was going to win the fight as though I was making progress in the Spanish centre my flanks were getting hit. That is what it was like from me if this helps you Digby, thnx for the game.

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Re: 32. Battle of Astorga - 4th April 1809

Post  CaptainAndrew on Sat Feb 13, 2016 11:46 am

I had 5 squadrons set to attack the french from your left flank, Martin. If only I hadn't died, I might've been able to save my 5 squadrons from Pat's cavalry and attack together with Martin J's cavalry. I believe that the french we where fighting would've been quickly swept away after losing their cavalry and seeing as how I still had 8 squadrons left when the game ended, I might've even been able to help Morsey or Phil and leave the Spanish right.

I can't say that I personally enjoyed the battle but that's just how it is in SoW's MP. I did expect us to have that many issues when we had 12 people wanting to play. As long as at least 1 person has fun, I'm happy.
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Re: 32. Battle of Astorga - 4th April 1809

Post  Uncle Billy on Sat Feb 13, 2016 3:01 pm

The French conceded the game, so it was a Spanish victory. Given that the Spanish cavalry outnumbered the French 2:1, it is unlikely the French could have won an outright victory even if Pat hadn't dropped. We all know that the side with the most cavalry wins in WL. It would have been interesting to see if Pat could have held that hoard at bay long enough for the French infantry to have completed the destruction of enemy's three divisions in the center and north however. I was so confident that would occur that I rode south to see how Pat was doing. I was quite surprised by what I saw. I even wrote Steve asking where the French cavalry was as all I saw was Spanish. He wrote back that he thought Pat had dropped. By that time it was too late as the remainder of the French cavalry was in flight.

Nevertheless, the Spanish fought their army very well. Congratulations.

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Re: 32. Battle of Astorga - 4th April 1809

Post  Charmead on Sat Feb 13, 2016 3:02 pm

Ah so that was YOU with the cav in front of me Andrew! So that was Martin who was trying to sneak around me. Clearly upset that I ran off his artillery earlier. He tried to camouflage his horses as deer (nice antlers by the way) but to no avail. I wheeled a couple squadrons to face him and bright back my batteries to the rear 800 yards or so.

I dropped after having captured 3 cav squadrons, one inf battalion scattered. Had I not dropped, perhaps my cav would not have been wiped out. But like I said before there was no way I would have held that position. I would have pulled back to higher ground in the north. I was covering SJs left flank and his division was too thinly stretched so pulling in tighter would have made sense.
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Re: 32. Battle of Astorga - 4th April 1809

Post  Guest on Sat Feb 13, 2016 3:57 pm

In the far north at the hill of Paso De LE Virgen the battle developed in this manner.

We the Spanish moved up the covering 3 sides of the hill, we had the French outnumbered and out gunned. I did observe Fr movement to the south from the hill. we had 2 DIV and had 2 INF BDE lined from the center of line facing east and curving around the hill to the north and another 2 INF BDE from center that swung to the south side. It appeared that we were going to push the French of the hill. Then at least 2 maybe 3 french INF REG flew down the hill and hit the center line and started to work on my line and a battery of guns. the battery was over run and 2 INF BDE under my command surrendered as few more retreated. I had a secondary line covering the middle and more guns too. Another Fr REG got thru to that but did not stay long and run away after a good thrashing. 1 Fr REG was ferocious and just continued to lay waste to whatever it ran into but they ran away after they thrashed us. I still had fresh troops on the center and reorganizing the center line. Half of 5th Div was moving up the hill and had cut the Fr on the hill form linking lines to the Fr to the south and they were shooting into the flanks of the Fr from the south. There was still a fresh BDE moving up the hill from the north and they were initiating flanking fire on the Fr too.

The initial Fr. attack was a terror and successful for the Fr. but we still had the numbers on them and we were still moving in to surround them on 3 sides. I feel as though we would have taken the hill but it would have cost is though.

Joe what is you input to our enjoyable blood bath yesterday. Joe you did a great job!

The men of the Spanish Army you served well and hope and Pray that El Jefe General Cuesta approves.

Respectufull,

Aide de Camp General Cuesta

Rudolfo Jose Salaza Espinoza de Madrid, Conde de Nadda etc etc etc....

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Re: 32. Battle of Astorga - 4th April 1809

Post  Mr. Digby on Sat Feb 13, 2016 4:50 pm

I am going to work on the basis that this was a draw simply because we stopped so early anything could really have happened. Yes the French left was in trouble but their centre and right still looked solid and were both dealing out immense losses to the attackers.

I am going to say that both sides fell back in exhaustion from the battlefield in shock at the bloodletting. The Spanish will go back to Astorga and the French to Leon. I've worked the post-battle casualty calculations so it is treated as a minor defeat to both sides as both will have left wounded on the field unattended.

Initial losses, possibly exaggerated, are French 350 killed, 2,400 wounded, 50 missing. Spanish 480 killed, 4,100 wounded and 100 missing. The cavalry losses on both sides were extremely high and the Spanish loss in artillery crews was high because for the most part they moved their guns too close.

Neither army's troops will view this battle as a defeat and morale will remain high.

Colonel Etienne-Francois Lamorendiere-Ducoudray of the 75e de Ligne of Pouzet's brigade of Sebastiani's division has been awarded the Legion d'Honneur for the magnificent charge of his 1er battalion. Colonel Joseph Bouvier des Eclaz of the 14e Dragoons has been mentioned in despatches for the gallant charges of his 1er escadron against "greatly superior numbers of a determined enemy".

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"Any hussar who has not got himself killed by the age of 30 is a jackass." - Antoine Charles Louis Lasalle, commander of Napoleon's light cavalry, killed in battle at Wagram 6 July 1809, aged 34.

"I had forgotten there was an objective." - Generallieutenant Mikhail Borozdin I
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Re: 32. Battle of Astorga - 4th April 1809

Post  lordjoe1234 on Sat Feb 13, 2016 5:05 pm

well Morsey for the most part it was just as you said the spa brought up a large force to there right of were the first spa division was set up during the arty shoot-out and started to advance on the hill. for the most part I held my ground on the hill until I reseeded the the message to put the Spa to bayonet and with the arty moving up close to my men I saw a opportunity to deal some damage sending in about 3 brig from the centre supported by 1 brig of skirms to hit them as they went up the hill.

The first brig to enter the fight was the mighty 1erBat.75eRegiment de Ligne that was able to route on birg in there first charge and crayon to the next one only to be flanked on both side but still won the fight  and move back up the hill and rest  only taking 17 causalities and 1042 kills. one of the other 2 brig moved in to take there place and to deal as much damage as they can and them the other went after the arty routing about 2 birg of the that move up  

However when this was happening the Spa used there numbers to there advantage and moved round the flanks of my forces. though my right seamed to be able to hold for the most part the left was get surrounded by a large Spa force  and in the centre my momentum was starting to slow down. Like what Morsey said they may of taken the hill but it would of costed them dearly

good job to the Morsey and Theodor Schmidt for that fight on the hill and I would of loved to see what would of been the outcome if the battle if it continued and thnx for that game I had a lot of fun.

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Re: 32. Battle of Astorga - 4th April 1809

Post  Guest on Sat Feb 13, 2016 5:28 pm

Question about guns?  How far behind a line of infantry should they be to not be considered gamely?  I prefer the guns to the rear but then it was said that troops can't be in front of guns and that is understood.  What is the correct distance for guns behind a line of INF.



THX




Digby I think that is a fair assessment of the battle outcome.

Good job to all except for Kevin, there are rumors of bags of underwear missing among the Spanish ranks are running rampant.  This may lead to another battle for the Under Garments. clown

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Re: 32. Battle of Astorga - 4th April 1809

Post  Mr. Digby on Sat Feb 13, 2016 7:05 pm

You can see from the replay where I left my guns - they were on the lower slopes and were in extreme range of the French first line of battalions. I just left them there and marched my infantry through them. I suppose they were about 500 yds behind the fighting. They ran up a fair score though not amazing, and were never at risk. Checking the game dump my division was the only Spanish one not to lose a single gun routed.

It isn't a case, I don't think, of distance behind friends that guns should fire but what LoS is reasonable. If the guns are on flat ground or lower you may need a couple of hundred yards. If the guns are higher, depending on the slope maybe 100 yds.

If I am shooting canister I try my best to NEVER have any friendly units in front of my guns because canister would rip them part even if they were well below the firing guns.

Also the AI doesn't respect friends in front so unless you TC units we can always expect the AI to do things we don't necessarily agree with Sad

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The other Martin - Charles Reille, le dernier Maréchal de France.

"Any hussar who has not got himself killed by the age of 30 is a jackass." - Antoine Charles Louis Lasalle, commander of Napoleon's light cavalry, killed in battle at Wagram 6 July 1809, aged 34.

"I had forgotten there was an objective." - Generallieutenant Mikhail Borozdin I
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Re: 32. Battle of Astorga - 4th April 1809

Post  Guest on Sun Feb 14, 2016 2:24 pm

Thanks for the explanation!

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Re: 32. Battle of Astorga - 4th April 1809

Post  Charmead on Sun Feb 14, 2016 4:23 pm

Mike

Canister is a 3-syllable word ... You okay with that?
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Re: 32. Battle of Astorga - 4th April 1809

Post  Guest on Sun Feb 14, 2016 4:56 pm

I call it BOOM BOOM, much easier for is ground pounders. lol!

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Re: 32. Battle of Astorga - 4th April 1809

Post  Charmead on Sun Feb 14, 2016 7:21 pm

That's what I thought. Ok so, Martin, knowing Mike as I do over the past couple years you probably would have done better simply saying "boom boom go on hill and do not stand in front of boom boom" ... Mike learned to say "thanks for the explanation" for just about anything over 15 works. Otherwise he would say something like "ok Mike understand Martin"

Just a suggestion.

Just the other day Mlke learned to say "Kevin steal forks"
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Re: 32. Battle of Astorga - 4th April 1809

Post  Guest on Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:15 pm

lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol!

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Re: 32. Battle of Astorga - 4th April 1809

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