Another kriegsspiel on the PC? HistWar les Grognards

[Martin]

King Rufus alerted us to this Napoleonic game a couple of weeks ago. The buzz is that on first release it fell somewhat short, but it is now gaining plaudits following a series of patches. See here for a guide on what it can do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mv6jPJGh21U&feature=related

There certainly seems to be a goode range of historical battles. There is also a battle-generator, together with a huge database of historical regiments and uniforms on which to draw. Unlike Gettysburg:SOW, you can also create your own maps.

His Royal Rufusness mentioned that you can play multiplayer. Does anyone know how this is handled?

Martin

[Tim Carne]

King Rufus alerted us to this Napoleonic game a couple of weeks ago. The buzz is that on first release it fell somewhat short, but it is now gaining plaudits following a series of patches. See here for a guide on what it can do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mv6jPJGh21U&feature=related

There certainly seems to be a goode range of historical battles. There is also a battle-generator, together with a huge database of historical regiments and uniforms on which to draw. Unlike Gettysburg:SOW, you can also create your own maps.

His Royal Rufusness mentioned that you can play multiplayer. Does anyone know how this is handled?

Martin

err it was me but what does that matter.

At the player interface level someone hosts a game and the others select a side and join in.

At the technical level you can play MP using port forwarding or Hamachi

[Martin]

Thanks Tim..........and apologies.

Do you know if the players in MP games use couriers, or do they just use a comms package to chat. Or something else?

Martin

[Martin]

Found this fairly detailed description of the game. From the final paragraph, it looks as if the game was in final development when this was written. At that time, at any rate, MP was limited to 6 players on 2 sides.

Histwar: Les Grognards brings to life the pageantry, savagery and brilliance of the Napoleonic era like no other wargame before. From its innovative three tiered AI system, it's overwhelming level of editing and customization, its unflinching depiction of period combat in gloriously detailed 3D brilliance, and it's wealth of historical knowledge and accuracy Les Grognards is in every way the bleeding edge of Napoleonic combat simulation.

Les Grognards, designed and developed by Jean-Michel Mathé, is a tactical and strategic wargame, putting you in charge of a Napoleonic army on the battlefields of the early 19th century (1805-1814).
Les Grognards can be either played against the computer (solo), or Multi-player via LAN or Internet (TCP/IP) with up to 6 players divided into 2 sides with each player controlling either all or a part of an Army. Play by e-mail (PBEM) with 15 minute game sequences (turns) is also supported.

Tens of thousands of soldiers (over 50,000 animated figures), deployed in battalions are organized into individually controllable Regiments, Brigades, Divisions and Army Corps are awaiting your orders, and will carry them out in breathtaking 3D environments.

Les Grognards allows you to relive the famous historical (and countless what-if) battles between the French, Russians and Austrian armies as well as a multitude of secondary nations and city states (Wurtemberg, Saxony, Poland, Italy, Naples).

Les Grognards comes complete with ten major historical battles (including Austerlitz, Eylau, Friedland, Wagram, Borodino), as well as powerful game editors to create Maps, Orders of Battle and Unit Doctrines (AI scripting).

View the action and plan cunning strategies with 4 different camera modes: a 2D based Strategic Overview map, a 3D Symbolic Unit map, a 3D "real world" map with subjective (ground level) view, and a 3D Real World map with "bird's eye" view.

In the 3D views, every infantry battalion and cavalry squadron is represented in approximately a 1 figure =10 men scale. This means an average battalion will show 70 soldiers and a single Regiment could have up to 8 battalions plus attached staff units for over 500 individually animated soldiers!

Each type of infantry unit displays a wealth of unique and individually modeled soldiers including the battalion Major, Color/Eagle bearers, Sappers, Skirmishers, Grenadiers, Fusilierrs and Guards. Every artillery piece is crewed by 5 or 6 gunners and their team of 2 to 6 horses and attached limbers. Cavalry units will show their Colonels, Captains, flag bearers, Cuirassiers, Hussars, Chasseurs, Carbiniers, Lancers and more.
A number of realistic environmental options can influence the conditions of a battle, including different seasons and weather options like fog, rain, and snow. Various other realism settings allow you to customize the game to your own levels.

The heart of the game concept of Les Grognards is to put you in the shoes of an Army Commander, letting you define - with a few clicks of the mouse- a precise plan of battle, which is then carried out by the various artificial intelligence systems controlling your troops. You can also directly interact with the lower levels of command (Corps - Division - Regiment) to closely manage the implementation and execution of your orders. To allow for these 3 levels of command, Les Grognards was designed with a revolutionary and customizable 3 level AI system, similar in function to the system first implemented in the Combat Mission series of games.

The AI includes 3 basic hierarchical levels: Grand-Tactical (GT),Tactical AI and Regimental AI.

In solo mode, the player (and the Grand-Tactical AI as the player's opponent) create their tactical plans and arrange their troops using 5 general orders. The Link order allows to combine Corps in order to compose Army elements and coordinate maneuvers. The other orders (Deployment, Diversion, Defense and March) are used to define operational zones.

The intermediate AI level represents the Commander of Corps or Divisions that are controlled by the Tactical AI (T-AI). The T-AI is always active and translates the Commander of Army's orders into executable commands such as troop concentrations, battle formations, rallying of units and use of reserves. The player can also take control at this level at any time. In Multi-Player mode, the players that are in charge of the various Corps are partly taking the place of the T-AI.

One innovative game feature is the delay in transmission and execution of orders from headquarters to lower echelons. Orders can often times be delivered too late, or can even be intercepted when the enemy manages to capture the aide-de-camp.

Finally, the Regimental AI takes care of every Regiment on the battlefield. For example, an active infantry AI controlled unit will automatically send a battalion towards a threatened flank or order a defensive infantry square formation in the presence of enemy cavalry. The underlying tactics for the Regiments are mirrored from real historical engagements and tactics guidelines, and are customizable through the powerful Unit Doctrine Editor.

In addition to the impressive AI structure, Les Grognards also models the combat itself in impressive detail. All combat losses are calculated using complex mathematical models which take into account factors such as the geometrical arrangement of the physical unit formations, their training, their combat abilities, their fatigue, and their morale. Unit Morale itself is modeled to a great degree and affected by such diverse elements as the presence and status of the Army commander nearby, proximity of friendly units, fatigue, weather effects, sustained losses, and much more!

Les Grognards also provides you the tools to make your own massive battles and even construct your own Armies! This is accomplished via the three different editors included with the game.
The Map Editor allows to create custom and random maps, from a small 6 x 4.5 km landscape to a sprawling 30 x 22.5 km battlefield. That's a maximum battlemap size of over 660 square kilometers! The maps are created in real time 3D and the editor allow for a stunning array of terrain features and structures to be placed on the map including villages, farms, hamlets, castles, encampments and sprawling vineyards, rivers, lakes and deep forest.

The Order of Battle Editor allows you to create your own Armies and comes with several data bases including more than 4000 historical commanders' names (from General-in Chief's to Colonels), more than 1150 historical Regiments from fifteen different countries and include more than 550 historical military uniforms.

The Doctrine Editor allows you to manage and edit the behavior of Regiments controlled by AI. This powerful editor unlocks the very essence of the unit based AI and allows to truly customize how your units will behave, interact with one another and fight.

Les Grognards is being designed and developed by Jean-Michel Mathé, and is currently in development with a release date to be announced.

[Tim Carne]

Martin, in answer to your question, the game uses a system for sending dispatches to and from HQ and to and from corps commanders. There is an in-game chat facility - this is visible to all players and is mostly used for game admin and domestics.

A word about the Fog of War facility. In 3D this removes the battlefield overflight capability. In addition on the map display limits what can be seen. This is not immediately updated which adds a little more uncertainty.

[Martin]

Martin, in answer to your question, the game uses a system for sending dispatches to and from HQ and to and from corps commanders. There is an in-game chat facility - this is visible to all players and is mostly used for game admin and domestics.

Thanks Tim. I take it that one player on a team takes the army commander roll, the others are corps commanders, and they only converse by courier unless they are together. Is that right?

How do corps commanders give orders to their divisions, brigades etc? Is that also by courier, or say by clicking on a map? Also do the troops move immediately orders are issued?

A word about the Fog of War facility. In 3D this removes the battlefield overflight capability. In addition on the map display limits what can be seen. This is not immediately updated which adds a little more uncertainty.

Do you have the option of a blank map? I guess this is linked to how you give orders.

Martin

[Tim Carne]

Martin, in response to one of your questions - how you issue orders.

I am focusing only on the Corp level here. It is possible to detach and order individual units but this is something I rarely consider as that is micromanagement that does not appeal to me (but it probably does to many gamers).

The mechanism is through the game graphic user interface. First you left click the commander then right click the order - deploy on line, defend on line, move to location, support etc. You then select the area of deployment again with the map and work through a series of options regarding the deployment.

I will experiment with posting images and hopefully answer some of the other questions in the next couple of days.

UPDATE - you can find the documents here

http://www.histwar.com/game/user-guides.html

Book I is the main game manual. Best to "save target as" rather than open the file in the browser (as this does not always work).

Page 6 mentions multi player, Pages 8 and 9 give information on visbility. Page 10, delays on orders.

This is a little out of date, Hamachi is used in the MP community as well as direct access through ports. Also the screenshots are mostly in French but these come out in English if you selsct the language for the game.

Multi-player is described in chapter 5.

[Tim Carne]

This is the player 2d interface (map view) at the start of a battle with full FOW. Nothing is visible of the enemy and the friendly forces are in known locations.

http://i45.servimg.com/u/f45/17/15/52/29/histwa11.jpg

In this later picture many enemy units are reported but this informstion is subject to delay. The "?" is a hint that seeing is not believing. Also the enemy unit information is not given in full.

http://i45.servimg.com/u/f45/17/15/52/29/histwa14.jpg

http://i45.servimg.com/u/f45/17/15/52/29/histwa12.jpg

Finally this is what you get as a report from a corps commander (AI driven).

http://i45.servimg.com/u/f45/17/15/52/29/histwa13.jpg

In practise you are become aware that you have enemy forces engaged to your front but there is sufficient uncertainty about composition and the state of the combat. Timing is everything if you want to exploit a breakthrough and this is difficult with FOW and delayed orders.

[Martin]

Many thanks for checking this out Tim.

One thing I was not quite clear about from the manual. Is it possible to send a marked-up map by courier? The manual implies it is, I think.

My initial impression is positive, and I may well pick up the game. It looks as if the battlefields are potentially much larger than those in Gettysburg:SOW, allowing us to play a huge battle such as Leipzig. Have I got that right?

Martin

[Tim Carne]

Martin, yes you can play the whole battle, just keep the level of command sensible (ie at corp level). One limitation at this stage is everything operates in a deployed state, there is no road column movement in an approach to the battle.

I am looking to set up a second copy (you are allowed to do this under the license) on a second machine and do some multiplayer over LAN so I can get some more screenshots. Unfortunately the other machine is the main machine for my good lady and she is busy preparing lessons for the next term so my time is limited to do this at the moment

[Martin]

Yes some more screenshots sounds good Tim. One or two others have mentioned that they are thinking of getting HistWar too.

Many thanks.

Martin

[Streetgang6]

One or two others have mentioned that they are thinking of getting HistWar too.

Many thanks.

Martin
[/quote]

I picked it up last week, just haven't had a chance to try it out yet. Hopefully will be able to over the long weekend here in the US.

Mike

[Martin]

Look forward to hearing how you get on.

Does anyone know whether there is a discussion forum for the game? And if so does it include AARs or other matarial relating to MP and bthe use of couriers?

Martin

[Tim Carne]

Try this site

http://www.histwar.org/forum/

I thing a good amount is open to general read access

[Martin]

Many thanks Tim. I'll check this out.

Martin