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OOB_Carryover_Campaign_Tool_v1.0

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OOB_Carryover_Campaign_Tool_v1.0

Post  Hays on Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:52 pm

Hopefully those of you who have access to Microsoft Excel have had an opportunity to try this.
I haven’t been bombarded with emails so I presume “it’s doing what it says on the tin”.

One thing I forgot to put in the notes is that you must select Army when using the OOB and you must not select Balance Forces. If you don’t run the game with these settings the casualty file will not match the OOB and cannot be loaded.

For those interested I thought I would give some idea of what is going on under the bonnet.

At the end of each battle the casualty file records the “Status” of each Regiment e.g. “Moving”, “Resting”, “Routed”, “Captured” and a number of other conditions.
For each Regiment that have suffered casualties it also records the number of “Deserted”, “killed”, and “Wounded”.
The programme deducts the Deserted, Killed and Wounded from the starting regiment strength then adds back a random percentage for Deserted and Wounded based on the following table.

Routed:
Deserted 0% - 10%
Wounded 0% - 10%

Captured:
Deserted 0% - 25%
Wounded 0% - 25%

Other Status:
Deserted 75% - 100%
Wounded 25% - 50%

I would be interest to get some feedback if people feel these are too harsh or not harsh enough.

The next stage of development is to introduce a process for increasing/reducing Regiments experience based on their performance in battle. This may take some time so as to note unbalance the game. So don’t hold your breath.

Hays

Posts: 64
Join date: 2012-02-20

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Re: OOB_Carryover_Campaign_Tool_v1.0

Post  Mr. Digby on Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:24 pm


Thanks for this info I was keen to see what is going on, calculations-wise. I haven't used the tool yet because I wasn't sure how to. I thought it was a game mod... hence my e-mail to you on Sunday. If the tool is a spreadsheet, how do I put the after battle data into it from the 'dump game data' button?

This tool clearly applies only to this OOB... or is this a tool that will work with any OOB? If so, how do I use it?

Sorry for seeming so thick.

For use in our up-coming campaign the OOB used for the battles will not obviously be the whole 'master OOB' for the campaign. The parts of the master OOB that are relevant to each battle (fought by detached brigades and divisions) would be selected from the master OOB, used for the battle and then put back into the master OOB. I realise you're a fair way from doing this yet but I wanted to let you know what kinds of functions a full campaign would need ('campaign' as in the way our group envisions the term, not 'campaign' as Garnier's mod understands it - two very different things).

Also it would be very useful, as I said before, to be able to flag the two armies as either 'victorious', 'defeated' or 'neither' and then apply a different set of percentage returns for each category.

I am not sure how many men are left in a regiment at the end of a battle when it is marked 'routed' or 'captured' so I'm not sure if your random % return range (0% to 10% and 0% to 25% respectively) is a low or high number. Can you clarify please?

For example I would guess that for a 'routed' regiment that took some losses from combat before routing you might have 15% casualties (split,say, into 5% each killed, wounded and missing) and then the other 85% of the whole unit is listed as missing (since it routed). I would think a routed regient would be mostly back to full strength within, say, a week, probably less, depending on its quality.

Taking a non-ACW example (actually from the Waterloo campaign) after the Battle of Ligny, a lot of the Prussian landwher from I and II corps fled the battlefield and headed towards home, going north east to the Rhine and dispersing completely. However after Waterloo, where the French army totally dissolved in the evening, Soult and Ney were able to bring about 20,000 men under arms after just 2 to 3 days after the battle.

So raw troops who rout should not recover many of their men very quickly (takes a week?) while experienced/veteran quality troops should return close to full strength after one to three days. For battles that end in victory or a draw and the army is still fully cohesive these rates of return should be higher.

This idea of time passing before men return to the colours is vital. I don't know if the GCM does this but it seems to as the wounded trickle back slowly after several turns I think.

We also need to consider what is going on when a unit routs or is captured in the game. Our little digital men ALL run away or ALL surrender but in reality this would not happen. It would be highly unlikely that an entire unit would rout or be captured; what I prefer to consider is that a unit is eliminated as a cohesive fighting force for the duration of the battle but stragglers quickly come out of the bushes and hedgrows, etc, that evening at camp.

I would suggest 10% to 25% return from a routed unit that day (modified by unit quality) with, say, another 10-25% over the next two days.

For captured units I'd place the initial loss as lower (fewer men actually surrender I think; some do, some hide, some skulk about behind the lines "helping wounded comrades", etc) so returns for captured units could be variable between 10% and 50% with another 10% to 25% the next day. After that, unlike a routed unit, everyone is back who is going to come back and the rest of the missing were actually captured.

Your other missing and wounded categories percentages are pretty good I think, though I'd err on the side of letting more wounded return than less, considering that I think our games are more bloody than historical battles and I'd not want our campaign after a couple of weeks to be sporting unit sizes like the CSA at Antietam.

Mr. Digby

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Re: OOB_Carryover_Campaign_Tool_v1.0

Post  Hays on Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:05 pm

Mr. Digby wrote:
Thanks for this info I was keen to see what is going on, calculations-wise. I haven't used the tool yet because I wasn't sure how to. I thought it was a game mod... hence my e-mail to you on Sunday. If the tool is a spreadsheet, how do I put the after battle data into it from the 'dump game data' button?

This tool clearly applies only to this OOB... or is this a tool that will work with any OOB? If so, how do I use it?

There should have been a word document in the zip file. If you follow these steps you should be OK.

OOB_Carryover_Campaign_Tool_v1.0

Initial Setup

1. Create a folder on your computer. e.g. “OOB_My_Campaign”
2. Copy the Excel file “OOB_Carryover_Campaign _Tool_v1.0” to the folder.
3. Create a SOW Mod folder e.g. “My_Campaign” within this another folder “OOBs”
4. Copy the sample OOB “OOB_SB_Campaign _Battle-001.csv” to the SOW Mod folder.
5. Play a SB game using the sample OOB.
6. When the game ends go to the “Battle Details” screen and select the “Dump Game Data Base” button.
Using the Tool

Using the Tool

1. Open the “OOB_My_Campaign” folder and open the Excel file “OOB_Carryover_Campaign _Tool_v1.0”
2. In the “Calculate” sheet, select the “Update OOB” button.
3. Navigate to the SOW\Work folder and select the “sowgb_gamedb_xx-xx-xx_xx-xx-xx.csv” file for the game just played.
4. If the correct file is selected you will see a “Save As” window. Enter the file name you want to give the new OOB.
5. You will then see a window confirming that the OOB has been updated and confirmation of where the file has been saved.
6. You can know close Excel.
7. Go to where you saved the “OOB_SB_ Campaign _Battle-xxx.csv” and copy it to the Mods folder
8. Play your next game and repeat from step 1.

Setup a new Campaign

1. Create your new Campaign OOB. (using Excel or Garnier’s OOB tool) Note: for the carry over tool to work correctly the OOB structure must be correct. Side, Army, Corps, Div, Brge, Reg.
2. Open the “OOB_Carryover_Campaign _Tool_v1.0”
3. Delete the contents from the “OOB_SB_Campaign_Battle” work sheet
4. Copy the OOB you have created into the “OOB_SB_Campaign_Battle” work sheet.
5. Save the “OOB_Carryover_Campaign _Tool_v1.0”



Mr. Digby wrote:
For use in our up-coming campaign the OOB used for the battles will not obviously be the whole 'master OOB' for the campaign. The parts of the master OOB that are relevant to each battle (fought by detached brigades and divisions) would be selected from the master OOB, used for the battle and then put back into the master OOB. I realise you're a fair way from doing this yet but I wanted to let you know what kinds of functions a full campaign would need

This is one of the things I had planned to implement. I think this Is probably more important than having the experience levels changing. In order to get the campaign underway I'll look at this next.

Mr. Digby wrote:
Also it would be very useful, as I said before, to be able to flag the two armies as either 'victorious', 'defeated' or 'neither' and then apply a different set of percentage returns for each category.

Yes, we discussed this the other night. It's on the list.

Mr. Digby wrote:
I am not sure how many men are left in a regiment at the end of a battle when it is marked 'routed' or 'captured' so I'm not sure if your random % return range (0% to 10% and 0% to 25% respectively) is a low or high number. Can you clarify please?

For example I would guess that for a 'routed' regiment that took some losses from combat before routing you might have 15% casualties (split,say, into 5% each killed, wounded and missing) and then the other 85% of the whole unit is listed as missing (since it routed). I would think a routed regient would be mostly back to full strength within, say, a week, probably less, depending on its quality.

Taking a non-ACW example (actually from the Waterloo campaign) after the Battle of Ligny, a lot of the Prussian landwher from I and II corps fled the battlefield and headed towards home, going north east to the Rhine and dispersing completely. However after Waterloo, where the French army totally dissolved in the evening, Soult and Ney were able to bring about 20,000 men under arms after just 2 to 3 days after the battle.

So raw troops who rout should not recover many of their men very quickly (takes a week?) while experienced/veteran quality troops should return close to full strength after one to three days. For battles that end in victory or a draw and the army is still fully cohesive these rates of return should be higher.

This idea of time passing before men return to the colours is vital. I don't know if the GCM does this but it seems to as the wounded trickle back slowly after several turns I think.

We also need to consider what is going on when a unit routs or is captured in the game. Our little digital men ALL run away or ALL surrender but in reality this would not happen. It would be highly unlikely that an entire unit would rout or be captured; what I prefer to consider is that a unit is eliminated as a cohesive fighting force for the duration of the battle but stragglers quickly come out of the bushes and hedgrows, etc, that evening at camp.

I would suggest 10% to 25% return from a routed unit that day (modified by unit quality) with, say, another 10-25% over the next two days.

For captured units I'd place the initial loss as lower (fewer men actually surrender I think; some do, some hide, some skulk about behind the lines "helping wounded comrades", etc) so returns for captured units could be variable between 10% and 50% with another 10% to 25% the next day. After that, unlike a routed unit, everyone is back who is going to come back and the rest of the missing were actually captured.

I’m not sure the criteria the game uses to generate the killed, Deserted, Wounded values at the end of the game.

All I can doing is taking the total of these away from the starting regimental strength then giving back a random number of men for Deserted and Wounded within a defined percentage range based on the status of the Regiment at the end of the battle. I can’t think of a way of implementing a timed delay for the return of Deserted/Wounded. I think we have to assume that by the time the next Campaign turn occurs they have returned to the regimental strength.

As you pointed out, one thing I can do, is based on the Victory condition is give whoever holds the field at the end of the battle a higher chance of recovering Deserted, Wounded.

Mr. Digby wrote:
Your other missing and wounded categories percentages are pretty good I think, though I'd err on the side of letting more wounded return than less, considering that I think our games are more bloody than historical battles and I'd not want our campaign after a couple of weeks to be sporting unit sizes like the CSA at Antietam.

This had also occurred to me. One nice feature would be the facility for the each side to have a fixed number of times in the campaign to recruit replacements.





Hays

Posts: 64
Join date: 2012-02-20

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Re: OOB_Carryover_Campaign_Tool_v1.0

Post  Mr. Digby on Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:11 pm

Thanks for the reply. I also need to apologise, Niall, my first post was terribly presumptious, talking about what else I wanted! I didn't mean it to come across this way and I was mostly thinking aloud, especially all that stuff about percentages and the whys and wherefores.

Mr. Digby

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Re: OOB_Carryover_Campaign_Tool_v1.0

Post  Hays on Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:24 pm

No problem, It was good to get the feedback. One thing I think can be used is your suggestion to also take the experiance level into account when selecting the percentage range for calculating the returns. (been thinking about it as I have driven home from work. Talk about keeping death of the road!!!)

Hays

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Re: OOB_Carryover_Campaign_Tool_v1.0

Post  Mr. Digby on Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:36 pm

I think I'll be happy whatever system you come up with as long as it 'feels' right - that is we don't end up with 80 man regiments after a week, or 1200 man ones! I would certainly like to see a drop in army sizes after time so the level of replacements should be quite limited, as you suggested perhaps a fixed pool of fresh meat new recruits and they can be sent to their units on 2 or 3 occasions at the C-in-Cs discretion.

The first campaign is of necessity going to be simple and short, of no more than 30 days duration so maybe in this case just one influx of recuits would be the most realistic.

Again much depends on how much fighting there is. I'm hoping for a war of maneouver with several division or 2 division sized battles. If everyone dumps all their troops into one huge column and stomps around the place it won't work very well, so I need to devise ways to discourage that.

Mr. Digby

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Re: OOB_Carryover_Campaign_Tool_v1.0

Post  Martin on Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:16 pm

Mr. Digby wrote: ................I'm hoping for a war of maneouver with several division or 2 division sized battles. If everyone dumps all their troops into one huge column and stomps around the place it won't work very well, so I need to devise ways to discourage that.

Wrong thread, but what about logistical constraints? In your up-country it would be difficult for large forces to live off the land.

Back on topic, let me add my thanks to Niall. A lot of work has clearly gone into the campaign carryover tool.

Martin

Martin

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