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Heartbreaking afternoon

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Re: Heartbreaking afternoon

Post  Martin on Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:06 pm

Blaugrana wrote:Are you not now one of our fastest potential hosts, Martin?
If only, Jeff. Still the Virgin technician who visited today does appear to have doubled my connection speed to about 25 meg. Still reviewing, but stability appears to be a lot better too. I am also promised a new router in the next day or two.

It remains to be seen whether I will get anywhere near that 60 meg nirvana however........

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Re: Heartbreaking afternoon

Post  Mr. Digby on Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:13 pm

In the order of John, Kevin, Baldwin that is the order I'd place them, given the number of problems we've had with Baldwn's connection and then Kevins' with John the most stable of all. I'm not sure speed comes into it over stability and John's hosting connection always seems extremely stable.

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"Any hussar who has not got himself killed by the age of 30 is a jackass." - Antoine Charles Louis Lasalle, commander of Napoleon's light cavalry, killed in battle at Wagram 6 July 1809, aged 34.

"I had forgotten there was an objective." - Generallieutenant Mikhail Borozdin I
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Re: Heartbreaking afternoon

Post  Martin on Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:16 pm

Mr. Digby wrote:In the order of John, Kevin, Baldwin that is the order I'd place them, given the number of problems we've had with Baldwn's connection and then Kevins' with John the most stable of all. I'm not sure speed comes into it over stability and John's hosting connection always seems extremely stable.
Yes I'm sure stability is important. Was it John who hosted Stefan's last game on 1st Bull Run? We had lots of players and lovely flags too.

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Re: Heartbreaking afternoon

Post  Baldwin1 on Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:44 pm

Mr. Digby wrote:In the order of John, Kevin, Baldwin that is the order I'd place them, given the number of problems we've had with Baldwn's connection and then Kevins' with John the most stable of all. I'm not sure speed comes into it over stability and John's hosting connection always seems extremely stable.

I've never disconnected from game only had cpu crashes. John is rarely here so that narrows it down to Kevin and myself and if I give Kevin the Scenario he will know his opponents starting positions. So that is why I must host when Kevin is CinC, otherwise if he is not CinC, then he can host my scenarios.
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Re: Heartbreaking afternoon

Post  Mr. Digby on Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:21 am

Baldwin1 wrote:
Mr. Digby wrote:In the order of John, Kevin, Baldwin that is the order I'd place them, given the number of problems we've had with Baldwn's connection and then Kevins' with John the most stable of all. I'm not sure speed comes into it over stability and John's hosting connection always seems extremely stable.

I've never disconnected from game only had cpu crashes. John is rarely here so that narrows it down to Kevin and myself and if I give Kevin the Scenario he will know his opponents starting positions. So that is why I must host when Kevin is CinC, otherwise if he is not CinC, then he can host my scenarios.
I'm sure he (and anyone else in our group) can be trusted not to open and view the scenario in SP in the few minutes he would have between you e-mailing the scenario and him setting up a room. Besides, why would any player cheat and ruin an entire evening's enjoyment for up to 10 people?

I wasn't suggesting you had crashes, Baldwin, but that we have players drop seemingly more often when you host. I don't know why that is, but that seems to be the way of things as far as I can recall over the last few games.

I can't remember who hosted the 1st Manchester game but I think it was John and Stefan sent him the scenario a while beforehand. I think if we think its an obstacle to us having our stronger hosts run the games because they might cheat, perhaps we're in the wrong group. I think the HITS group is the most reliable and honest set of gamers I've ever played with and I am quite certain that John never sneaked a look at the scenario in SP beforehand.

I had no qualms at all about letting John host my campaign battle of Weston, even though he was the Rebel commander and I'd trust Kevin equally, if he were in the same position.

Regardless of who wrote the scenario, I always think our strongest host should... host; I'd rather we had the best possible chance of a game running to completion at all times, rather than be so concerned about people cheating that we were willing to run a higher risk of the game crashing and us all wsting an evening.

Its just a shame John has dropped away from the group for now. Sad

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The other Martin - Charles Reille, le dernier Maréchal de France.

"Any hussar who has not got himself killed by the age of 30 is a jackass." - Antoine Charles Louis Lasalle, commander of Napoleon's light cavalry, killed in battle at Wagram 6 July 1809, aged 34.

"I had forgotten there was an objective." - Generallieutenant Mikhail Borozdin I
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Re: Heartbreaking afternoon

Post  Uncle Billy on Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:56 am

I agree that John is the best choice to host a large game. Although speed is important, stability is the real key. By that I mean the speed does not fluctuate greatly during the game. I suspect that is what is causing some people to drop on occasion, their speed changes abruptly.

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Re: Heartbreaking afternoon

Post  kg_sspoom on Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:17 am

I may be a good option for hosting in the future.
Good connection speed and fast computer.
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Re: Heartbreaking afternoon

Post  Cleburne on Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:50 am

Will vouch for this from experience.Steve is a good host for large battles and also can be relied on to organise battles if he has the correct files in advance.
Have been in many large GCM battles he has hosted in the past.For sure one of the better hosts from my experience.
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Re: Heartbreaking afternoon

Post  Baldwin1 on Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:27 am

Well post your speeds and we'll see who's is the fastest, go to www.speedtest.net



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Re: Heartbreaking afternoon

Post  Father General on Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:38 am

Baldwin1 wrote:Well post your speeds and we'll see who's is the fastest, go to www.speedtest.net

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Re: Heartbreaking afternoon

Post  Father General on Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:45 am

I ran a second test to be sure.

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Re: Heartbreaking afternoon

Post  Martin on Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:56 am

Mr. Digby wrote:I can't remember who hosted the 1st Manchester game but I think it was John and Stefan sent him the scenario a while beforehand. I think if we think its an obstacle to us having our stronger hosts run the games because they might cheat, perhaps we're in the wrong group. I think the HITS group is the most reliable and honest set of gamers I've ever played with and I am quite certain that John never sneaked a look at the scenario in SP beforehand.

I had no qualms at all about letting John host my campaign battle of Weston, even though he was the Rebel commander and I'd trust Kevin equally, if he were in the same position.

Regardless of who wrote the scenario, I always think our strongest host should... host; I'd rather we had the best possible chance of a game running to completion at all times, rather than be so concerned about people cheating that we were willing to run a higher risk of the game crashing and us all wsting an evening.

Its just a shame John has dropped away from the group for now. Sad
Absolutely agree with all of that. I'd trust any of the group not to cheat, and I think we should organise games on that basis.

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Re: Heartbreaking afternoon

Post  Martin on Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:22 pm

To keep the Father General’s ball rolling, here is a speed test I’ve just run at http://www.speedtest.net/



I would like to understand this whole business a lot better, specifically as it relates to hosting. So here are a number of points/questions:

(a) I still seem to have quite variable results. But they’re mainly on the upside, so does it matter? The lowest has been 25 and I have had several results over 50 meg today.

(b) Virgin installed a new superhub yesterday. For the first few hours afterwards my average was c25, but yesterday evening and today its been c40. Do routers take time to reach optimal performance, or am I just seeing natural internet fluctuations?

(c) How important is upload speed for our purposes? My usual upload speed is 2.8, which is a lot less than Neal's. For me this seems to vary much less than download speed and ping. That said, in this test you will see it’s only 1.8, which is abnormally low for me.

(d) How important is ping for hosting? It seems to vary between 5 and c40 for me.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I have been promised a new (non-Virgin) router shortly. The plan is to then just use the superhub as a modem. So hopefully my speeds will increase further, even if I don't go the power adaptor route. Given this, it does seem as if I may be able to host some games, although it’s probably best if I start in ‘little league’. Perhaps we can try during the week if some kind person could take me through port-forwarding. I could do tomorrow at 19.30 UK time if anyone’s up for that.

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Re: Heartbreaking afternoon

Post  Martin on Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:42 pm

Cleburne wrote:Will vouch for this from experience.Steve is a good host for large battles and also can be relied on to organise battles if he has the correct files in advance.
Have been in many large GCM battles he has hosted in the past.For sure one of the better hosts from my experience.
Excellent news and thanks for offering, Steve.

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Re: Heartbreaking afternoon

Post  Mr. Digby on Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:03 pm

As Martins findings show, the internet is endlessly variable. We'd all probably need to do 2 or 3 readings per day at different times over a month to get a sensible average, and even then an 'average' isn't much use because your internet speed can be well below average on the day we plan a game.

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"Any hussar who has not got himself killed by the age of 30 is a jackass." - Antoine Charles Louis Lasalle, commander of Napoleon's light cavalry, killed in battle at Wagram 6 July 1809, aged 34.

"I had forgotten there was an objective." - Generallieutenant Mikhail Borozdin I
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Re: Heartbreaking afternoon

Post  Martin on Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:47 pm

Mr. Digby wrote:As Martins findings show, the internet is endlessly variable.
Well mine certainly is Smile

But is this true for everyone? How much is due to basic internet fluctuations, how much to individual broadband provision, and how much to wireless? Does anyone have a feel for this? I don't.

At the moment I'm still using wireless, with what appears to be a duff router. When the D Link one comes, might things be a lot less variable?

I may end-up following Hays' suggestion of using a powerline adaptor. If I do that, and given that I'm now on fibre-optic, would there be variability at all? One thing Virgin do appear to be doing is consistently getting 60 meg to the superhub.

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Re: Heartbreaking afternoon

Post  Mr. Digby on Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:18 pm

The variables are almost always outside your house, elsewhere on the internet and due to traffic levels anywhere between the machines of the players in the game. I'm certain the variability of everyone's speed is due to this, not some random changes between the plug in the wall and your PC. These different speeds ISPs provide are due to their customers all using the limited bandwith they have to connect to the backbone.

Early to mid-evening is always going to be the worst time for playing internet games because everyone else around you is doing the same - or streaming movies or downloading music, or whatever.

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The other Martin - Charles Reille, le dernier Maréchal de France.

"Any hussar who has not got himself killed by the age of 30 is a jackass." - Antoine Charles Louis Lasalle, commander of Napoleon's light cavalry, killed in battle at Wagram 6 July 1809, aged 34.

"I had forgotten there was an objective." - Generallieutenant Mikhail Borozdin I
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Re: Heartbreaking afternoon

Post  Father General on Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:08 pm

If you can, always hardwire into the wall. Wireless connections are a no-no for online gaming where connection integrity and speed matter.

Naturally, turn off everything in the background, including your Steam client, your iTunes, your virus scanner, and your The Father General's KJV 101 Most Quotable Holy Bible Verses for Lincolnites App.

Maybe before big games we can run speed tests among our available hosts and go with the guy who's fastest at that time.

Gosh, I wish they had a convention we could all attend just to play via LAN connection. Could you imagine all of us in a room?

-N-
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Re: Heartbreaking afternoon

Post  Baldwin1 on Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:12 pm

Keep in mind this is for people who are able to host and have undergone the trial by fire which is port forwarding or plan to do so. The Father General's connection is divinely inspired. I'm curious to see what Kevin and Steve's averages are? We may be able to run 10+ players with couriers after all.
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Re: Heartbreaking afternoon

Post  kg_sspoom on Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:15 pm

You guys are both faster than me.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/2175566882.png

15.90 2.15 30ms

i-7-2600k cpu @3.4 GHz
16 gb of ram
Nvidia Geforce GTX 560 ti
1gb onboard ram
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Re: Heartbreaking afternoon

Post  Baldwin1 on Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:30 pm

I'm better on ping and upload than Martin but slower than Neal on all three categories. I don't think I'm in the running for #1, but a decent backup host. Has Kevin hosted 9 or more players, because that's when we start to see issues?


Last edited by Baldwin1 on Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Heartbreaking afternoon

Post  Blaugrana on Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:13 pm

I just got:
Download: 6.7
Upload: 0.9
Ping: 15 ms

I did a lot of testing a few months ago, when my iPad wreaked havoc with my Internet and the wired figures were like these (once I'd asked my ISP to remove my upload cap, per something I read somewhere). They were also pretty steady, and I tested at different times of day etc.

So, my speeds are woefully slow, but I have managed to forward my ports, thanks to Mr Cleburne's help and patience. As Kevin mentions, this is not a trivial hurdle affraid

I can, and have, hosted. I doubt very much I could usefully host a big game, but I could host 1 or 2 people testing a scenario etc.

If BT can get fibre-optic broadband to me, or if I can overcome my prejudice against anything connected to Branson, I will let yous know.

Jeff
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Re: Heartbreaking afternoon

Post  Martin on Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:42 pm

kg_sspoom wrote:
i-7-2600k cpu @3.4 GHz
16 gb of ram
Nvidia Geforce GTX 560 ti
1gb onboard ram
Well some of the time, maybe. But my cpu is slower (2.8 GHz) and you have twice as much RAM.

So this raises another question in my mind. For hosting, how important is better connection speed & stability vs a more powerful computer? Granted that the only true test is playing, it would be good if we could make an educated guess between potential hosts based on this sort of information. Is drawing broad conclusions possible? I do know I'm not up to it Sad .

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Re: Heartbreaking afternoon

Post  Uncle Billy on Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:33 pm

Upload speeds and latency, (ping time), are probably the limiting factors for larger games. Although my upload speed is probably half of Martin's, I can reliably host 8-9 players, although the game does lag a bit. I remember things didn't go well when I tried hosting a 12 player game. As I said, it's the variability of the speed during the game that causes problems. Mediocrity is fine so long as it's reliable.

Computer specs only become important when large armies are fielded. I can deploy 120K men in a battle without any problems. Steve should also be able to do so. But nearly all our games have less than 40,000 troops on the field, so top of the line is unnecessary. Quad core rather than dual core probably is important for hosting. Although the game only runs on one cpu, all the ancillary services that are required from the OS run on the other cores.

The best way to come up with a list is for anyone who thinks he may be able to host, is to enable their port forwarding and give it a try.

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Re: Heartbreaking afternoon

Post  Father General on Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:17 pm

I should be able to host Confederate victories all day, including the larger ones. I'll get online this afternoon and if someone can walk me through the finer points of configuration, we can give it a test.

-N-
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Re: Heartbreaking afternoon

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